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Breeders' Cup 2017

Point - Counterpoint: Uncle Mo vs Havre de Grace

Point - Counterpoint Havre de Grace vs Uncle Mo
The Breeders' Cup Classic is shaping up to be another legendary Battle of the Sexes. Horse Racing Nation blogger Scott Dick, our Indiana correspondent at Hoosier State of Mind, votes Uncle Mo, while Managing Editor, Brian Zipse of Zipse At The Track, votes Havre de Grace!

Across The Pond

Scott Dick:

The Breeders’ Cup Classic is just that, Classic. It’s a race that makes Champions. Uncle Mo is just that, he's already a Champion. The 2010 series of Breeders' Cup races might have been the most exciting edition in the history of the event. And in the year of Blame vs. Zenyatta in the Classic, Big Drama drawing off in the sprint, and Goldikova's quest for a 3-peat in the Mile, Uncle Mo gave us, arguably, the most impressive performance of them all. Under the twin spires of Churchill Downs, Mo annihilated the competition in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile


Yes, Mo's counterpart, Havre De Grace, has been nearly perfect in 2011. Yes, she's just some "Blind Luck" away from being unbeaten this year. But, in her only start at Churchill Downs (the venue for this year’s Breeders' Cup) she was a well beaten 3rd in last year’s Ladies’ Classic. I have the utmost respect for Gracie, she's proven she can beat the boys, and beat them bad. She's proven she can get the 10 furlong distance. Now the question is, can she do both of those things on the biggest stage in horse racing, in a full field at Churchill Downs. I have my doubts.


I know what most of you are thinking, Mo's 3 year old season can't compare to Grace. I know, I know, Mo's coming into the biggest race of his life off of back to back 1-turn races. But, let's not forget Mo has never run worse than 3rd. His 3rd place finish was in the grade I Wood Memorial where that awful G.I. Infection reared its ugly head. I often wondered, if Mo was healthy this year would we be talking about an unbeaten Triple Crown winner right now? 

You said, "Uncle Mo is the closest thing to Seattle Slew that I have ever seen." You also believed after Mo's two-year-old season, that 2011 might just be the year we would break that awful streak and finally have another Triple Crown winner. Mo has been burning up the track since his return to the races. Although, his first start back was a loss, it was to a multiple graded stakes winning sprinter. Uncle Mo pressed an extremely hot pace and just got nailed at the wire; this was off a 4-month layoff where he was recovering from an illness. It was an illness where he was literally fighting for his life. I think that gives him a legitimate excuse to get a little tired in his first race back.

Uncle Mo's last start was “Ghostzapper like.” The grade II Kelso showed everyone that Mo was back! Although, the early fractions weren't blazing, he did go 6 furlongs in 1:09.34. Grade I winning sprinter Jackson Bend made a menacing move at Uncle Mo, but he never flinched, and swatted the Forego winner away like a fly. Mo drew off under a hand ride, winning by an easy 3 lengths. His time of 1:33.82 was dazzling, earning a Beyer figure of 118.

The only question I have regarding Uncle Mo in the Classic, is the 10 furlong distance. Offspring of Indian Charlie are best from the 7 furlong to 9 furlong distance. But, this is where the dam comes into play. Playa Maya is sired by Arch. Ring a bell? Arch, of course, is the sire of last year’s Classic winner, Blame.

I believe Uncle Mo can shock the Horse Racing world and leave Havre De Grace in his dust, do you?

Brian Zipse:

I’m with you there, Scott, it may not carry the pomp and circumstance of the Kentucky Derby, but the Breeders’ Cup Classic truly is America’s best race. Last year’s Classic rivals the most fantastically intense races I’ve ever had the pleasure of attending. And yes, the Championships on the whole last year were strong, with Uncle Mo’s rousing win in the Juvenile one of the highlights. As they say though … that was last year, and this is this year. While Uncle Mo may have well peaked 12 months ago, Havre de Grace is a filly who has been improving ever since.

A relatively new player to the top level of competition last fall, I thought Grace’s 3rd place finish in the Ladies’ Classic was a very good performance. This year she has taken things to a whole new level. Yes, Blind Luck beat her by a whisker in the Delaware Handicap, but Grace has proven to be the most consistently excellent horse in America. She beat Blind Luck easily at Oaklawn, she took down Flat Out in the Woodward, and she made the Beldame look like little more than a public workout. There can be no doubt that she is the frontrunner for Horse of the Year.

Triple Crown? I have not seen anything from him this year that gives me any confidence in that. You mention having doubts about Havre de Grace in the Classic, how can you not have major concerns about Uncle Mo in the Classic. Horses simply do not win the BC Classic off a couple of one-turn races. If he does it, I will be the first to tip my cap to him, but … Uncle Mo is the one in which I say, “I have my doubts.”

Wait a minute, misquote alert. What I said was, Uncle Mo was the closest thing I have seen to Slew, as a two-year-old, since 1977. Now if I said the same about Uncle Mo as a three-year-old, we might be having a different discussion right now, but I did not. The proof of his greatness this year is simply not there. Meanwhile, Havre de Grace may not have the talent of Rachel Alexandra or Zenyatta, but she is doing a marvelous job of going after an amazing three-year sweep for the fairer sex in the Horse of the Year race. That is a fact, not a hope, and I am excited to see if it happens.

Not so fast my friend. Ghostzapper entered his Classic run as a mature four-year-old, and off of plenty of two-turn races to prepare him for ten furlongs. That is a big difference. Uncle Mo may have his kind of talent, but he is certainly not coming up to the race as well prepared. And here is a little hyperbole for you … Havre de Grace’s entire season is “Personal Ensign like” … sorry, I couldn’t resist.


As well you should. I really worry about what Uncle Mo will look like in the final quarter mile of the Classic, and I say that more because of foundation than breeding. I have no worries of Grace getting the distance though. She is a distance horse, and has run in nothing but two-turn races for years now.


Me? No. Listen, they’re both wonderful horses, and as a fan I would be happy to see either win the Classic, but one of them is battle tested and ready, and one is not. As a handicapper, I recognize that Havre de Grace is much more likely to create a classic headline than Uncle Mo.



Watch Uncle Mo and Havre de Grace in the Breeders' Cup on November 4 & 5 - check out the HRN Breeders' Cup TV Listings today!


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Older Comments about Point - Counterpoint: Uncle Mo vs Havre de Grace...

I agree bigfoot...To Honor and Serve is really being overlooked...
i agree AJ, but also to honor and serve will come in second.. Havre - honor - then mo :)
I love it all you guys put your money on Uncle Mo ..and ill clean up when Havre de Grace runs right past him
There are other contenders in the race that can step it up a notch and win it all. Havre de Grace certainly has proven she can get the distance and run rag numbers with any of them. Uncle Mo just needs to prove his prep is good enough and can get the distance. It will be a good horse race.
Going with the filly...Rock it Havre de Grace!!!! But I love Uncle Mo too!!!!
" Breeders' Cup Classic is shaping up to be another legendary Battle of the Sexes." Really? Chantal vs. whom: Ramon, Joseph, or Ryan?
they are actually going in the classic? My untried and up against the best. Good luck on that attempt
Because Rapid Redux is not in that race I'm OK with Uncle Shmoo
Tizway is out... Have to use Flat Out in my exotics.
It looks like the filly,HarveDe Grace. Don't think Uncle Mo can get the distance. Also like Stay thirsty.
Tizway is out of the Classic, I don't know if this helps Mo or Havre de Grace, but it is pretty disappointing.
I will be back a CD to watch these BC championshps again this year. If their match-up is as good as lasts year's Blame / Z finish - well worth it. But, I will have to pick HDG to rate better at the distance.
I just watched HDG's last work from Keeneland on drf.com & Saez had to shake the reigns a little. It didn't look as great as it does on paper considering that track is lightning quick right now.
I have questions about both of them getting the distance, but I would lean towards HDG only because Uncle Mo hasn't rated at all since he's come back to the races. With horses like Game on Dude & Tiznow in the race the pace expects to be swift and I believe HDG is a little more versitile, even though she may come up empty when called upon in the stretch.
Grace is the horse to beat..she has the work under her belt and yes she has the talent as well..I love Mo but think he is being thrown into the biggest race of the year with little prep..talent he has but a mile an a quarter is a long way to go after being as sick as he was..Grace gets it!
my vote is for HDG!!!she is the best female now that BLIND LUCK is gone!!!
Nice job, Fellas! As you know, I'll be rooting for HdeG.
He is great. not unbeatable...you're right...he probably won't lose. I'll save Havre de Grace is the horse to beat though......and he'll be the one to beat her!
Mo is great. He is unbeatable. He will not lose. He's the horse to beat. Everyone please believe what I've written so I can make more $ when he gets it handed to him in the Classic.
Amazing how the probably favorite for this race is a horse thats coming off a 7 furlong prep and a mile prep and had a liver ailment for four months before that. EXTRAORDINARY HORSES CAN DO EXTRAORDINARY THINGS. Any other horse with those credentials wouldn't be 50-1. But this horse is special. I think everyone knows that. People worry about pedigree but I seriously don't see that being an issue. The horse is strong and moves strong. Theres not 1 race that Uncle Mo has ever run that anyone can say wasn't impressive. As a 2 year old nobody came close. 3yo opener he beat classic entrant Rattlesnake Bridge, He ran 3rd in the wood with a liver ailment and the horses that finished ahead of him had to run the races of their lives to beat him. Off a layoff ran 2nd in a grade 1 and lost by a nose to a very very good Calebs Posse....Then the Kelso he basically ran away from 2 grade 1 winners on a dead track in 1:33 and change and acted as if he didn't even run. Those of you fortunate enough to be going to churchill on Nov 5th should consider yourself priveleged. I think you're going to see something amazing from Mo. Havre de Grace is good. She's a champion and probably a deserving HOY and hopefully she runs well but Mo is just too much horse right now for her to handle.

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