nijinsky13

No, I really am not familiar with these greats from let's say just before my time, so I love to read about them in descriptions from those who saw them run. What a great crop Northern Dancer ran with, Laz I do know that I saw Susan's Girl race, but I don't have details, just remember the name from her NY races.

Mary. Susan’s Girl was a real babe. She ran 63 times and won 29 of them including 23 stakes wins and 8 G1 wins. She won on turf and dirt, sprinting and as far as 10F. She never ran well against males though and finished zero for five. She is in the HOF, was champion three year old filly and champion older filly twice. From what I can see she ran 18 times at Belmont and Aqueduct and once at Saratoga. Two of her greatest triumphs were against the great mare Summer Guest (she ran third in the Woodward at 12F against Key to the Mint and Autobiography).

It was run at Aqueduct due to Belmont being remodeled.

Just noticed that on the HRN Top 250, the Dancer is 63rd and Hill Rise is 47th. Doesn't make sense considering that the Dancer beat HR in both of their meetings, the second time (in the Preakness) was a thrashing. The HRN Top 250 is reasonable for the top 20 or so horses, but once past the first 20, there are some ridiculous rankings. For example, Invasor 59th ????? Not only is he far better than Hill Rise, he should be in the top 20 of all time.

Trivia ? what about the Dancer's Belmont was very very different that year?

Many thought that Northern Dancer should have won that Belmont. He spent a good part of the race fighting Hartack and losing so much valuable energy that is so important in a 12F race. When Hartack finally did let him go he responded, but ran out of steam and was passed by a very underrated Quadrangle. This was a very good and tough three year old crop, one of the best all time. Northern Dancer went into the Belmont winning 13 of his last 14 races and beat all the top three year olds several times. When he won the Queen’s plate that was his second 10F win by June 20th of his three year old year. A little known fact is that Quadrangle, after winning the Wood, ran unplaced in both the Derby and the Preakness and then a week before the Belmont ran second in the Met Mile to the crack older horse Olden Times with Ahoy (132 lbs) and Sunrise County in the beaten field. He then won the Belmont a week later giving him four G1 races in five weeks. Hill Rise owned California that spring then came east and won the Derby trial four days before the Derby itself. Roman Brother would come into his own the following year when he was co-HOY with the two year old filly Moccasin. He ran in the Wood on April 18 (3rd to Quadrangle), the Derby Trial to Hill Rise, the Derby and Preakness and then on May 30 a week before he would finish second in the Belmont, he won the 9F Jersey Derby at Garden State. The Belmont would be his twelfth race that point in the year (Jan 29 to Jun 6). No coddling back then.

Northern Dancer only ran the Belmont & Queens Plate as an actual 3 year old. That leaves 16 races as a 2 yr old or yearling. Ron Turcotte says that after Secretariat, Dancer was the best horse he ever rode.

@travel_vic: What do his two brothers have to do with anything? This thread is about the Dancer's quality, not his siblings.

Lots of inexperiencwed voters on the HRN list. The Bloodhorse top 100 voted on by experts who have been around for a long time voted Northern Dancer 43rd best. Hill Rise didn't make the top 100.

Not sayin' the Dancer should be higher than 63rd (it's his record as a sire that proves his greatness) but no way HR should be ranked higher than ND.

He had at least TWO fill brothers who were not so great

Laz, I snuck in that trivia answer as soon as I saw the question. I knew you'd have the history of ND. Pretty tough to run 12f. at Aqueduct. How many turns?

Mary, the track record for 12F at the Big A was set in 1964, 2.26.1. That ’64 Belmont at Aqueduct was run in 2.28.2 around three turns and was faster than many Belmonts run at Belmont. I don’t know if you’re familiar with that group of three year olds, but they were a tough bunch. Later that year Roman Brother ran second to Kelso and ahead of Quadrangle in the two mile JCGC. In ’65 he won the JCGC at two miles, the Woodward at 10F and the Manhattan at 13F. Quadrangle would finish his three year old year with wins in the 10F Travers, 13F Lawrence Realization, the Dwyer at 10F back then and finish third in that JCGC to Kelso and Roman Brother and third in the Woodward to Gun Bow and Kelso. Hill Rise would come back the next year and win the Man o’ War at 13F on turf. With all this Northern Dancer was without doubt the best stallion. However Quadrangle did sire the champion Susan’s Girl, No. 51 on the Bloodhorse Top 100 list and the first filly or mare to earn a million dollars.