Don't flatter yourself.
Well Laurie, this shall be a quick response because in all fairness, I can only respond to your first paragraph as it is the only one I read. To date, I have read 2 of your articles. This one due to boredom at work and of course, you know exactly which one was the first. That one where you cast the first arrow. Yes, that one. Don't care for your work? I'm not so sure that would be the correct terminology. But look on the bright side, your little article here actually got some action, just like that first one. You even got Travel Vic out here with the same exact paragraphs I stumble on from time to time here. I tend to make things happen in that regard. Enjoy.
Thank you very much Frank. I appreciate it very much. Although I have spent a good part of the last 16 years studying dosage I am always willing, eager and hungry to learn more and more. You can never get enough of a good thing! I will absolutely stop on by. Thank you again.
"The fact that B-I-C-S-P are “Dosage terms” is a straw man. I pointed out that using those categories in order to express the basic stamina influences of C-d-R sires is perfectly reasonable, and that it is very different from talking about Dosage Profiles. You have offered nothing to challenge that distinction, nor can you."
Yes I can "Man". And I will because it is the people like yourself who need to be spoon fed through their running mouth.
B-I-C-S-P is NOT a basic stamina influence as you call it. Not even close. These are the 5 remaining categories of the Dosage Diagram from the 10 that were originally attributed to Dr. Franco Varalo's methodology to determine the evidence of distribution. These included the Balanced Pattern, the Wing Pattern, the Stout Pattern, The Void Pattern. Individual horses are positioned at discrete points along the speed-stamina continuum. These points determine their type and affect the full range of inherited performance capabilities. For simplicity, you have the 5 remaining APTITUDINAL GROUPS which were modified by Hewitt. He also modified the Varola list of mainly European Chef-de-Race in order to make DOSAGE more applicable to American pedigrees. It proceeds to a definitive Dosage Diagram. When you see the term "Brilliant" or "Solid" or "Classic", this depicts the exact CATEGORY that said sire will influence the recipient by way of proven past offspring performances. It is the category with which affects the offspring.
A chef is assigned one and in some cases 2 categories and is then considered a Brilliant Sire, a Solid Sire, etc. These words have one function and that is to allocate points into the proper category within the Diagram Model of the recipient. Those words are far from a reference to stamina influences and are in direct relation to the inheritance potential of the offspring.
If one is going to refer to a sire's aptitudinal category then it would be appropriate to distinguish the distance allocation that it refers to in terms of the recipient as opposed to just using a pretty word with no distinction and as it was intended. And that would be in its proper context withing the DOSAGE METHODOLOGY. When one uses those terms as a "basic stamina influence" term they show the gross negligence of what that term signifies. Not to mention that the words also signify speed influence which in your made up definition is glaringly missing.
To dumb it down for the kindergarten group, if you are to be so short-sided in your definition, those 5 groups, besides the true definition outlined above, run SPEED influence to STAMINA influence. Not only do you not understand the terms but you destroyed even your own made up definition. B-I-C-S-P are categories of aptitudes that Chefs have proven to pass down through their line. They are used as such with those who actually know what they are talking about and not used as made up stamina influences with no reference what-so-ever as to their true intention.
And you, king of the hill, addressed not a thing. Again, "the family is greater than the individual". That is all our dear readers need to know.
And I would say that as your argument stands, you have offered me nothing. I stand by assessment of this pathetic analysis, of which, quite frankly, is a boring colt after all is said and done. And to this end, being a full champion of the incredible findings that dosage provides, be it chefs, mares or reines, I simply have no excitement in it. At all.
Additionally, I am not afraid to say that at times I have done pages and pages of analysis on a single colt, only to be shattered by how wrong I was with regards to the distance limitation. In those cases, I will admit to my lack of analysis with regards to the mares. It was there, staring me in the face and still made no difference.
No matter what you may or may not think about me Tinky, my tolerance and impatience for those who are so closed minded with their tunnel vision and their aversion to anything that they truly and simply just don't understand makes me react. I deal in common sense. And if you think that dosage is just a bunch of hot-air, then I know, without a shadow of a doubt, you do not understand it all.
And now that my reaction to that junk is over, I just smile my friend because to tell you the truth, I simply really dont care after all. You all can knock yourselves out with your first and second generation analysis. You can forget the families, the reines, the mares, the european stamina influences, etc. Makes no difference to me.
Well TINKY, look at you go. First, I gave a rather abbreviated and quick explanation as I have no desire to teach the so-called experts. If I chose to, I could write pages and pages on that chart, but I care only to do that for friends.
Second, the terms "Brilliant-Intermediate-Classic-Solid-Professional" are in fact DOSAGE Terms and just because someone can see and "B-I" next to a sires name on a chart and then use those terms loosely and then forget them subsequently is ludicrous. If the terms are "fundamentally sound" then why on earth would they be discarded? You say I cherry picked a couple of high class runners, well, I certainly could have gone on and and about each and every chef within Sunny Ridges's chart. Those two high class runners are listed chefs who have the ability and the proven capacity to pass those traits through the bloodline. But why waste my time when the vast majority of people have no clue what an Intermediate or a Solid Sire means, let alone why that particular sire has the potential to be more influential to the colt over his immediate sire.
Third, to disregard the stamina that is overwhelmingly passed down from the 800+ listed reines is simply ignorant. HOLD YOUR BREATHE..."The Family is stronger than the individual." And if you had a clue as to what Reines truly signify, you wouldn't act so smug with your ignorant remarks. Quite the transparent little blogger arent you? When tracing the bloodline through to these broodmares, who paint their families with certain pronounced characteristics, one can then take the time to hit each generation, see conclusively if it passed through and make a reasonable determination how it will make an impact on said colt. Be it speed, turf, sire source, etc. Some of these mares may in fact be responsible for more graded stakes winners than the sire himself. To disregard this is to in fact disregard HALF of the analysis.
Third, lets get a little crazy Tinky, shall we?? Lets take it in another direction as you state, "But it is ludicrous to suggest, as you do, that non-Chefs are somehow difficult, if not impossible to categorize in the same manner. What on earth gave you that idea?"
Please, humor me. Lets take two new potential stallions... Honor Code and Powerful. Both A.P Indy boys from two different Mares, Malka and Serena's Song. Honor Code, of course, well respected, ran like a champ, made money, and when he produces, the great "pedigree gurus" will go on and on about Honor Code's past performances with regards to the new colts chart. They will talk about all that he accomplished and somehow that is going to translate into figuring out the new colts distance limitations. Now, Powerful, who was content to walk around the track showing off his good looks instead of running has a new colt too. What do you Tinky, when Powerful's colt goes undefeated and Honor's Code's colt can't get 7f and breaks his maiden at 4??? How a horse runs on the track and how he performs in the breeders shed are two different animals. It will take at least two generations to see if either one of those new sires has the mojo to pass down those attributes, the same optimum distances and anything even remotely close to champion characteristics. I prefer, as many do, to look at a PROVEN bloodline, refer only to a listed Chef or a Prominent Non-Listed Chef coupled with the PROVEN list of Reines for stamina, speed , sire, etc purposes as opposed to grasping at straws with a 1st generation sire who may have done great things on the track, but has not yet shown that he can do a damn thing in the breeders shed - regardless of how great he was while running.
And lastly, the mare profile that spans 4 generations, is more important, justified and imperative if one is going to access distance limitations. But, you are your buddy can do as you please and continue the wikipedia sham.
Thank you Laz. Coming from you means so much. It's funny, no response from the author this time around, however she had her guns drawn and blazing back when I was a regular here. I see right through it all and I suspect that many others do as well.
Well thank you Buckpasser. I wouldnt have even posted to this tread but the sheer hypocrisy is overwhelming and the analysis is non-existent. While Holy Bull is a listed prominent Non-chef who has the potential to add additional speed, this sire can not even be considered as a major player in Sunny Ridge's chart yet. It will still take many years to distinguish whether or not he has the ability to pass along inherent champion traits yet. Holy Bull's average winning distance was 8.35f and as a sire, to date, his offspring's AWD is 7.77f. That alone shows that that particular bloodline is looking to skip. On top of that, there is a reason why out of the thousands and thousands of stallions throughout the decades, there are only 224 worthy enough to be called chefs. The reason is that they are PROVEN to pass along specific optimum distance traits to their offspring and beyond. Most first and second generation sires and dams and damsires are not proven to do a thing yet and therefore can be looked at but not relied upon. Best example for this is Shared Belief. That superstar may have relied a bit on his sire Candy Ride, however, I would bet all of my future derby bankrolls that his champion performances ran directly to Reines Flower Bowl and had absolutely nothing at all to do with Candy Ride.
DP = 6-3-3-0-0 (12)
DI = 7.00
CD = 1.25 - 9f
DP= 6-4-5-9-4 (28)
DI = .95
CD = .25 - 11.5f
Not to hard to see that the chefs within his chart were very adept at a sprinters distance and gradually descends as he gains his way closer to the classic distance. This does not show that he gained nothing in the 10 to 12f distance category. What it does show however, is that what little he did inherit from his chef's Seattle Slew and Rough 'n Tumble, could possibly get watered down and not be strong enough to withstand the dominance of speed inheritance elsewhere in his chart. I can like this to a Jackson Bend type. He basically inherited the same type of sprinters blood from his chefs, however, the difference ends there. Jackson Bend inherited ZERO stamina from his Reines. (And for those who dont know what Reines are... they are listed Mares who are proven to pass specific dominating speed and stamina attributes down to not only there immediate offspring, but have the ability to pass through the entire bloodline).
Sunny Ridge is quite the opposite of a Jackson Bend type in this regard... His Reines were dominant in the Solid Category (13-14-15f) with the most influential lines streaming from the Reines, Aspidistra (Sire line Better Self) and Reines, My Charmer. Also of note is Reines Alxanth (Sire line Mahmoud). If Sunny Ridge decides to gravitate to one of those bloodlines he gets 10f just fine. If he does not gravitate to one of those bloodlines then he must be content to hit the board in the Preakness. I could go on and on with this chart but I've typed enough. Although, of note for you, the presence of the magnificent bloodline that leads directly to La Troienne. The mare equipped solely with 13f stamina and nothing else!!
David, you seem like a very nice guy. There was a time when I posted regularly here. If you care to know about this particular colts pedigree, you might wanna read my response to Buckpasser below. The main reason for my original post was in direct response to a rather hypocritical article written some time ago which was directed right between my eyes. Also, if you dont know what Reines are, (much like most) then you are missing well over half of what the colt has inherited. Stay tuned.
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