This is like comparing different Eras of any sport though so there is really no right or wrong answer (as long as you are using valid players/horses).
For basketball you have the Jordan is the GOAT, then everyone else, then you have your LBJ and Kobe Camps, then you have your Bill Russell Camp. Football you have the Brady people and the Montana people.
Unless a horse comes along who goes like 30 for 30 in his career and wins every G1 starting as a 2 year old to 3 then 4 and 5 then there will never be a conscious answer on who the greatest horse of all time is. Personally I think Spectacular Bid is, but I know there are people who feel differently and each camp has a valid argument. It is part of what makes sports enjoyable.
I think only a die hard Cromie would put Chrome in an argument against Secretariat and Citation lol.
I would say this era of racing is really from roughly 2000-present. I didn't get into the sport until the late 90's(I was born in 1990), but I feel like from the 2000-today is somewhat comparable.
A win is a win though, that is what matters. You can't discredit wins even if they aren't stakes win...even the all time greats ran in non stakes earlier in their careers.
I understand the argument that Arrogate didn't run a full 3 year old campaign, which I agree is a hard thing to do, which makes American Pharoah even that more special of a horse, But In Arrogates past 3 races he has won the Breeders Cup Classic, the Pegasus World Cup, and the Dubai World Cup...I'll even throw out the Pegasus as it is the races first year of being the richest race. The Breeders Cup Classic/Dubai World Cup Double alone puts him in some elite company with Curlin, Invesor, and Cigar. So you can say Arrogate only really has 4 races, but just 2 of his wins puts him in very rare company. On top of those 3 wins he broke the track record at the classic distance at the oldest track in America.
Like I said, we can't compare apples to oranges. Even 20 years ago horses ran much more frequently then they do now, and even the top horses lost some times because trainers would use a race as a workout/prep race for a bigger target race. Now we get 2-3 months between races for some of these bigger name horses like Arrogate and they just use workouts to get them into shape and not races which keeps their numbers down. Look at a horse like Cigar who at least IMO is one of the greats of the last 30 years. He would run like 5 races in 5 months, then get a 2 month break, then go right back at it. Today if one of these top horses did that people would say they the horse is being overworked. All in all, the sport just isn't the same as it was 30+ years ago, just like any sport, but you can't knock Arrogate because of the change in the sport. For what he has done in his career so far ranks him among the greats. Personally I have him roughly in my top 20 all time.
I agree that the DWC was Arrogates worst race, but that is because of the start...and even with that horrible beginning, he won fairly easily over a good horse in Gun Runner.
RIght?! Like I was never a big fan of American Pharoah, but when he won he won with ease. His Breeders Cup Classic to me was his most impressive win. That field was a solid field, and he made them look like claimers. Yes his times weren't the greatest, which is why a lot of people now are putting Arrogate above him, but Pharoah was a fighter and no one passed him easily. Would've been a great matchup between them.
True, but there is just a large demand right now as the popularity in the sport is on the rise.
Could not agree more that Garrett Gomez should be a Hall of Famer. I think he will get in one day, he deserves to be in.
Personally I think Battalion Runner is one of his best 3 year olds in his barn. Horse has the potential to be a serious runner.
I don't like Always Dreaming, I think his pedigree is better suited for 1 mile and less.
This is a different era of racing. We will never see another horse like a Spectacular Bid who wins 26 of 30 races or even a Secretariat who wins 16 of 21 and is a Triple Crown winner. Horses today just don't run that much if they have a good pedigree. Look at American Pharoah, 9 for 11 Lifetime, Triple Crown winner, he wasn't around for a long time, but he is a Great in this era of racing. Once in a blue moon you get a horse like California Chrome who doesn't have great breeding but is very good who will run more then 20 races, but that is very rare in racing today.
Arrogate right now is 7 for 8 lifetime with 4 Grade 1 wins which include 3 of the richest races in the world, he is a modern day Great.
You can't compare apples to oranges which is what you are doing by comparing Arrogate to the Greats that ran 30+ years ago. In this era of racing Arrogate is a Great.
Pletcher doesn't like to run his top contenders against one another. Was never going to run Always Dreaming and Battalion Runner in the same race.
Copyright © 2010 -
other passionate horse racing fans!