Hey Lisa. Bravo. I think many on here can learn form you and I like it when you set the record straight. You are simply brilliant.
Excuse me for taking so long to get back to you but it took me that long to finally stop laughing.
What’s CC done since the Preakness? Let’s see, he finished 4th in the Belmont beaten by less than two lengths on a badly injured foot. He finished 6th beaten 7 lengths in a prep for the CC. Finished third by a neck in the BCC against two horses that both should have been Dq’d and in doing this showed that the Pen Derby indeed was a prep by gaining 7 lengths on Bayern from one race to the next. Won a G1 on turf. Finished second to a phenom in the San Antonio. Finished 2nd in the world’s richest horse race, and ten months later won the San Pasqual.
Seems like a pretty good resume to me and one that I doubt any horse racing today, especially the new four year olds, can duplicate. Consider the fact that in two races with a total value of $15M he finished less than three lengths combined from winning them both. Also consider the fact that Bayern had an easy trip in the BCC and if Moreno hadn’t been wiped out at the start of that race, would have been run into the ground and faded out of the money, which would have changed the entire complexion of the race.
I get it that today’s fans seem only interested in the win
and even if a horse loses a race by a nose, the fact is that it didn’t win and therefore isn’t deemed that good. Seems kind of silly to me when horses like Kelso, who won just over half his races, is considered a top five all time. He’s considered top five because he was always a major factor in the big races, not necessarily winning them, but being a factor, something that Chrome has been also.
I guess I don't know crap about the horse racing business. Thanks from all of us that you do.
So Dortmund wins six in a row to start his career including a maiden, OC, the G1 L.A. Futurity in a three horse photo over Firing Line and Mr. Z, the G2 Lewis in a photo over Prospect Park, the G2 San Felipe by a
diminishing 1 ¼ lengths over Prospect Park, and the G1 SA Derby over One Lucky Dane. Other than Firing Line, who isn’t exactly high on my list, the horses that he defeated in this winning streak were not even G3 caliber.
One Lucky Dane never ran after the SA Derby, but going into it he won only a MSW and an OC. Prospect Park won a MSW and OC on dirt, never even tried the TC, and showed that he is actually a turf horse when he won the G3 La Jolla, his only stakes win in his three wins in eleven starts. Mr. Z has won exactly 2 of 20 starts, a MSW and the Ohio Derby over a very weak field when he prevailed by a nose in a three horse photo.
Then the TC and Dortmund had the lead with very soft
fractions for a Derby, but when it came time to answer the question he backed off with a :51.71 last half and a :26. 57 final quarter (his actual final quarter was 26.91). Absolutely no excuse here. Then the Preakness and the sloppy track. Use that as an excuse if you want, but the fact is that during that race he gained a full five lengths on AP in the third quarter, his time 24.08 seconds to AP’s 24.93, which tells me that he was handling the track. He was also in position to win the race but he didn’t go on and IMO he had no excuse. He just wasn’t good enough. His two races after his layoff were nice but there wasn’t anything that I could see in them that would put him ahead of Chrome.
As for Firing Line? He hasn’t really shown much other than he can finish second to a better horse. In all fairness, personally I would like to see what he does after he comes back before offering a further opinion.
Keene Ice is definitely a one run horse who, when the
planets are aligned and he is at the top of his game is probably capable of beating any horse racing. He kind of reminds me of Concern who won the BCC for his 4th lifetime win and first G1 in 1993 when coming from well back to win by a neck, but earlier missed the Travers by a neck and was third in the Haskell to Holy Bull, when also trying to come from well back. Horses like that
aren’t tactical. They just run their race and if things work out they win, but more often than not they lose after
making a big finishing move only to fall short.
Frosted still has much to prove IMO also. He closed a lot of ground in the Derby and was the only horse gaining at the end, but it was a pedestrian final half mile and further shows the overall weakness in the field when none of the other closers gained. Golden Soul, Revolutionary and Mylute all closed tons of ground in Orb’s Derby. I don’t think they did much since. Even Mine That Bird closed a ton of ground when winning his Derby, in fact, from the half mile pole in that race he’s the only horse that gained ground to the end. He never won another race. Frosted’s Belmont time was good even though AP was running away from him, but his individual final time wasn’t as fast as Summer Bird’s and I don’t hear many raving about Summer Bird. He had every chance to go
by Texas Red in the Jim Dandy, but didn’t and I don’t hear many raving about Texas Red. He improved off that race though but had every chance to win the Travers, but lost ground in the stretch. Sure it was to AP, but Keene Ice didn’t lose ground. Yes he won the Pen Derby but
there wasn’t any beef in that race and there was no excuse for him missing the board in the BCC, but he was backing off.
As for Chrome, he had a six race winning streak too. He was slow to develop, but when he did he won those six, which included two thirds of the TC and the G1 SA Derby. His injured frog in the Belmont, plus the fact that he was a very tired horse at that point, which knocked him out for the summer races and when he came back he showed that he needed a race in the Pen Derby.
Amino the point I was trying to make is that under the Beyer system CC's time for his distance was justified and was no different than Dortmund's faster time for his distance, he was just running on a slower race surface.
I guess that maybe I'm not getting it, but what's all this love for horses like Dortmund, Frosted and Firing Line? When you come right down to it just what have they really done for people to say that they are better than CC? What big stars have they beaten? Frosted went the other way in the BCC and actually finished behind such average four year olds like Honor Code and Tonalist and Effinex, all from CC's so called weak crop. Dortmund seems to be backing out of every tough race in his so called comeback. Firing Line? Wow, two lifetime wins including the G3 Sun Derby. There's no doubting AP's quality, even though he dominated a less than stellar crop, but IMO the second best three year old last year, and by a considerable margin, was a sprinter. Hopefully these newly minted four year olds will produce because we need some stars, but I'm still taking a wait and see approach and I think for them to reach the top they have to go through CC.
The great Dortmund, he with zero G1 wins against older horses, defeated Imperative by about four lengths and got a 103 BSF. CC beats Imperative by less but under a light hand ride and got a 103 BSF. Am I missing something here?
I think that there is another factor that should be considered and that is the fact that CC came into the race off a 10 month layoff, this because of an injury. I wouldn't be too quick to write him off just yet. In fact, I think that providing he is injury free, he will dominate the division this year.
I also think that due to the fact that CC had half his frog torn off revealing red flesh (there's a photo on the net), in the Belmont, this cost him the TC. I know he tailed off badly in the Pen Derby, but the Belmont was his 8th race in 8 months. He was an extremely tired horse and the Pen Derby was after nearly a three month layoff. Since then all he's done is finish 3rd by a neck in the BCC (a race he should have won through a double DQ of the top two and would have at most other tracks), win a G1, finish 2nd to the phenom Shared Belief and 2nd in the DWC in a tough race half way around the world. No other older horse racing even comes close to his resume.
The wrath of the Horse Racing Nation posters with their rose colored glasses will now rain down on you.
My bad. I meant to say grand sire and of course you are right, he's on the dam's side.
Good one Sullivan.
Maybe because he sired First Landing who was a champion at two and pushed Bald Eagle to a track record 1:33 3/5 in the 1960 Met Mile. First Landing in turn sired Riva Ridge.
Or maybe because he sired Hail to Reason, another champion at two and a tremendous sire who among his foals gave us Halo, the sire of greats like, HOY winners Personality and Sunday Silence, Derby winner and Canadian bred Sunny’s Halo; and the great Canadian mare Glorious Song and her brother Devil’s Bag the sire of Devil His Due.
Or maybe because he sired Bold Reason, the sire of Bold
Reasoning, the sire of you know who.
Probably not a lot of people know about this guy but he sure
left his mark.
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