Cowgirl1234

And, despite me disliking him, I have managed to learn many new facts from him. If he only he delivered the facts in more appropriate behavior.

Rafi, for the record I know TV can be blunt and it rubs many the wrong way, but many of the likes of his comments come from me.

Just imagine with me for a moment the '73 derby. 7 more horses in that race that shouldn't have been there impeding Secretariat and/or forcing him wider around both turns. Stopping/backing up in front of him. Of course this isn't what happened, but it was the reality of horses like Afleet Alex (never saw another TC near miss have to weave through traffic like he had to), Risen Star, and even Little Current. Little Current could've gone on to be a great, but we'll never know because he never raced after the Belmont.

Retired at 3. Maybe if he'd had a longer career?

*****that you believe should have won it

Oh and I forgot to add one of my all time favorites, Genuine Risk. She definitely should have won the Preakness.

Bold Forbes, Tim Tam, Native Dancer, Laz's Northern Dancer, Point Given.

An occasion when the jockeys made both a difference and you right.

have you guys forgot about real quiet he got beat a centimeter for the triple crown and the 5 million dollar bonus from visa he had a 4 length lead late before victory gallop mowed him down stylishly

Now he has two. Find that funny?

I'm surprised no one likes Bold Forbes.

Swaybacks - Do not forget Northern Dancer in 1964; record time ( then) for the Kentucky Derby; won the Preakness and as it seems to follow failed in the 1 1/2 Belmont. Went on to be arguably on of the top three sires.

The "speed horse" lost the shortest leg of the TC in '76. I remember being very ticked off about that. The Kentucky Derby headline was , Honest, Pleasure was Bold Forbes'. Looked like a mistake, at first glance.

cocoa, I do/did. I gave you that like.

Maybe

likes for the previous three comments beginning with Dressage's.

Smarty Jones, Real Quiet, Swale, and though he only won one, I think Easy Goer was a good one. Also, Alydar if EG was to be included. Point Given, Risen Star. Long neverending list.

Risen Star is another I could make a nice argument for. Raced extremely wide all the way around the track in the '88 derby. 14 horse field may have made all the difference for that one.

Spectacular Bid, Afleet Alex, Sunday Silence, and Reva Ridge to name a few of my personal ones. There are so many great horses to win 2 of 3, its hard to pick only 1.

Many of those "likes" are from me. I haven't been signing all of my likes, but I can start doing that again.

No the colt won IN SPITE of Ronnie Franklin

The one that I felt the most was Afleet Alex. I don't know if he was more talented than Sunday Silence or Riva Ridge but he was probably the one I was most emotionally invested in. I still think he had a crap ride in Derby.

Hey, cowgirl, nice to see you stuck around. This is a very hard question. I'd say Native Dancer, he had a bad trip, he only loss one career race. Spectacular Bid, he should have won but the idiot riding him caused the loss in the Belmont, Alydar (couldn't get past Affirmed), Sham (Only flaw was being born in same year as Red), Tim Tam (Ran a grand effort in the Belmont, on three legs),and also I think Smarty Jones was underrated and doesn't get enough credit. He loss the Belmont, on a fast 3/4th's, and I believe he came out injured.

rafirox- Why is it that you always complain and whine about cocoa and his "attacks" on you, but then you turn it around and do it yourself? Are we in freaking kindergarten? Do our comments have to have "likes

I say Afleet Alex only because he was so close in the toughest of the TC races. None of the other near misses missed because of the 20 horse field KY Derby.

Tim Tam who was seriously injured while running the Belmont. If he had not been injured, Calumet might have had a third Triple Crown winner.

I feel he should get a lot more credit. Perhaps a weaker crop, but still some horse.

I've done likes for Rafi, done them for TV -- I'm a Libra, what can I say?

Nice to see you've stuck around Cowgirl :) Native Dancer is at the top of my list as well. He would have won the Derby IMO, if not for the incompetence of the jockey, and even then he fell a nose short. Majestic Prince is another big one. He was injured after the Preakness, but due to what my father believes to be pressure from the media, they raced him in the Belmont anywhere, where he was beaten by 5 1/2 lengths. After the race, it was said that he never should have raced because he was hurting and not at his best. He was retired after the race. Spectacular Bid, Alysheba, and Sunday Silence are other big names in my book.

Icy. I'm not going to lie MANY of tv's post are fantastic, and he distributes great information everytime he touches the keyboard. My only problem is the WAY he distributes the info, his arrogance, and the "Only I am entitled to my opinion" attitude.

Maybe instead of asking tv to change, you should first change yourself and quit being so easily offended

People on this forum have selected amnesia and can't follow their own advice! Booyah!!!!!!

Hartack gave both Northern Dancer and Majestic Prince a bad ride misjudging the pace. He let Baeza on Arts and Letters set a very slow pace which cost Majestic Prince the race. IMO seeing him in the paddock before the Belmont, he looked like he had lost a lot of weight and his coat was dull. He looked spent to me in the walking ring. By contrast Arts and Letters looked great and obviously he ran well to win.

Icy=class act as always

Since we are identifying our likes. I gave you Icy a like and TV a like and dressage and Sysonby

Just added one.

I agree Sysonby, Afleet Alex had so much talent and could of won that race had he been given the proper shot to. But that ride cost him and I can't even watch that derby because of it. One of my favorite horses and his Preakness and Belmont are still two of my favorite races. Also, I was devastated when Smarty Jones lost. I still watch his Belmont and keep thinking he's going to get there before Birdstone catches him. And everyone knows my huge love for Barbaro (favorite horse). And although he may of only won the Derby, I believe he had the ability to win the TC had he gotten the chance. I also believe the Belmont would of set up perfectly for I'll Have Another. And other horses that come to mind at the moment are Point Given, Native Dancer, Spectacular Bid, Riva Ridge and I so wish Man O' War had run in the Derby. And of course Real Quiet. I seriously want to cry every time he gets nabbed on the wire.

Spectacular Bid, Native Dancer, even though he did not win the Derby, but won the last two legs - Damascus. Sham & Alydar would have most likely won the Triple Crown had it not been for Big Red & Affirmed.

No. I just find it funny how TV always has ONE like. Look at the article I wrote a couple days ago. Read his comments. All of them have one like :P.... I wasn't attacking him, however, I remember HIM posting he thought Franklin gave a pinhead ride, but when I post it, he digs up dirt to say I'm wrong. Even, if it is in opinion.

Although Swaps was an incredible horse, I would like to add Nashua to my list above

At our ages it seems were stuck with who we are. Out side of some small things it would take a cataclysmic event to make any major changes at this point, although it does happen. It did to me anyway in 1997, so before going to sleep each night since I ask myself the following questions. Did I intentionally do anything to harm anyone, in any way, if so, why? Did I have the opportunity to make some ones day a little brighter, but passed on the opportunity. I do this for my own self respect, not others opinions of me.

I agree Sysonby. I was at the Derby that day . The rail was dead all day long and Rose admitted in an article that appeared in the Daily Racing Form that he indeed screwed up when he dropped Alex down on the rail in the stretch and it cost him a Kentucky Derby win. I agree with him that it probably did cost him the victory that day.

What about Man o War he got two legs , didnt run the Derby but probably would have won

Coolio, I guess Mary. I indentify all of mine. I wish it showed who likad the comment.

Won a very fast running of the Wood. I think it was a record.

Agreed re Sham and Alydar, if they had been born in different years, we'd likely have at least one more triple crown winner -- not sure about Sham and the Belmont distance.

to be cool or correct? ***shaking my head***

After Native Dancer, I would say Tim Tam who was leading into the stretch and fractured a seisimoid and hobbled to finish second. I also thought both Carry Back and Northern Dancer had a good chance to win the crown, but pace issues lost both of them their TC. Majestic Prince was a favorite of mine. Johnny Longden announced to the press that he wouldn't run in the Belmont. But his owner Frank MCMahon decided otherwise. As to press pressure, that was very high because he was a strapping chestnut that people likened to MOW at the time and he was unbeaten.

Sham deserves an honorable mention here. He and Alydar are probably the two best horses that I know of who ran in all three legs never to win one. If only those two had been born in so many other years!!!

Real Quiet was not Triple Crown material......Touted Victory Gallop and a bunch of us cut out on a seminar to go into one of the rooms to watch it....

TV. Even you have said before Franklin gave a pin head ride. EVERYONE knows he gave a dumb ride. EVERYONE. The ONLY reason you typed that is b/c you think I am a fraud. Also, I find it funny how 90 percent of your comments have ONE like, lol.

Spectacular Bid's comment line in the Belmont gave NO indication of a rider doing anything than riding an animal that did not have it: "....away in good order, went after Gallant Best while racing well out from the rail nearing the backstretch, took over before going 5 furlongs, held a clear advantage into the stretch while continuing a bit wide but weakened under pressure." ....same thing that year in the Jockey Club Gold Cup: "....caem over to move closest to Affirmed nearing the backstretch, altered course to the inside of Affirmed when UNABLE TO STAY WITH HIM around the far turn, made a run between horses near the final furlong but was not good enough." Same chart almost as we have a distance compromised animal when really pushed late...NO DIFFERENCE.

Hope she does great and enjoys her new career!

Good to see your still on this site, cowgirl. :).

Excellent. Good life after racing.

Very good! We all adore her- she's such a sweetheart :)

No doubt. I remember Randy saying he used to sneak in. Heck, I thought I was a celebrity when my buds and I would park in the residential area in the far turn, run up to the rail just when the horses were getting there, then catching a glimpse of ourselves on the late night television replays.

Laz, that was some great info!!!!! I thought I'd expand on one you mentioned, Althea. The year she ran that incredible 1 1/8 time(fifth fastest time for a three-year-old ever), Oaklawn Park had either eight or nine track records that were tied or broken. This, for a track that was eighty years old. I happened to be there one day, when I bet on a horse named Dew Line. He would eclipse the world record for a mile and seventy yards, yet, would lose to Win Stat, at that time the official world record breaker. There also was one day in '84 that on a nine-race card, the No. 1 post position won eight races. There was a definite track bias that year, so much so, that I went against Althea in the Ky Derby, and she ran 19th, beating only one horse. Nevertheless, she was great. Thanks for that insightful info.

rafirox, thanks for your kind comments. There are many who contribute so many insightful and informative comments on this site including yourself. I get a kick out of contributing what I can in the same way that I believe that so many others do. Believe me, I feel that I have learned far more than I have been able pass on. I respect everyone’s comments and look forward to reading them including buckpasser, Iluvturfracing and Footlick, three people that are always bang on.

Thank you very much, Laz. I look forward to your posts, for your info is awe inspiring. To receive recognition from you is as awesome as the many posts you have.

I would agree with Cocoa on Gallorette. She raced against many top horses among them Stymie, whom she beat in the Brooklyn in a real head bobber, she also raced against TC winner Assault and the great handicapper Armed. She beat Pavot in the Empire City Handicap. Another old timer to look at is Twilight Tear who was HOY and beat Devil Diver and Pensive in the Pimilco Special putting Seabiscuits record in jeopardy.

I see you're coming in researching fillies. I was 19 when she hit the track and thought she was amazing, although (don't beat me up here) I thought Turkoman deserved Horse of the Year over her. A few more fillies to check-out are Zenyatta, of course, Genuine Risk, and Personal Ensign. Two more are Ruffian and Go For Wand. Unfortunately though, these two end sadly...RUffian was greatness.

She was one of the best, without doubt. The greatest daughter of Secretariat

CFC, I'd forgotten about her. She was tough!

I love talking about horses from the 80s cause that was my time. When I first came to this site I would leave a post on horses like Clever Allemont, Tank's Prospect, Gate Dancer, and Swale having NO IDEA they would show-up #1 in the que on the home page. I'm glad they did cause guys lkie travel_vic, LAZMANNIC, etc. have some very cool stories they were kind enough to share. Especially travel_vic 's picture of Swale and Laffit Pincay jr coming out of the jock's room to autograph it.

ruffian75, just like I said, I learn more on here than I'm able to pass on. I wasn't aware that so many records were broken that year. That's what I like about this sight, you learn something new every day. Thanks buddy.

Research Gallorette, in my opinion the best filly of all time, and her opponment Stymie. Great horses with humorous lives.

Ha!!! Randy Moss used to get in when he was just a little lad. Should've hooked up with him. Could've got in earlier than 16.

Cowgirl 1234, glad to see that we have a new fan of horse racing. Lady’s Secret was surely one of the great fillies-mares of the 80’s. She was one of a few of her sex to win the prestigious Whitney Handicap (the only time she defeated males in six tries though the males when she faced were tough and she did finish 2nd in the Woodward and 3rd in the Met Mile and the Iselin). In four 10F races she won the Beldame twice and the BC Distaff and finished 2nd to Life’s Magic (another really good filly) in another BC Distaff. One thing that was remarkably consistent about her was her record in Grace One races. In 18 G1’s, she finished unplaced in the Oak Leaf at two, then in the next 17 G1’s she never missed the board, winning 11 with 4 seconds and 2 thirds. In 1986 she won the 9F Ruffian by 8 lengths carrying 129 lbs. and giving 20 lbs. to the second place filly and she ran the distance easily in 1.46 4/5. There were a lot of remarkable fillies in the 80’s including those previously mentioned, plus Althea, who defeated colts in the 1984 Arkansas Derby defeating Gate Dancer and equaling the track record of 1.46 4/5 and later that year defeated in Kentucky Derby when she was favorite; Princess Rooney the 1984 BC Distaff winner and winner of 17 of 21 lifetime races; and many others. Two that I think don’t get the respect that they deserve were Mom’s Command and Melair (both personal favorites). Mom’s Command ran 16 times and won 11 and every start was in a stakes race. She was the three year old champ in 1985 over Lady’s Secret and defeated Lady’s Secret in the Comely Stakes by 11 lengths at equal weights (She later was 2nd to Lady’s Secret in the Test by 2 lengths as the 1-2 favorite). Unfortunately she suffered an injury in training in the fall of her three year old year and was retired but she did win 5 G1 races and was extremely versatile winning at 5F, 6F, 6.5F, 7F, a mile, 8.5F, 9F 10F and 12F in a career that started in July 1984 and was over by Aug. 1985. Melair was a sensation in her brief career that began in Apr. 1986 and was over by July 1986. She ran only 5 times, all at Hollywood, which was dirt back then. She won every race by a cumulative total of 30 lengths and was never headed. Her greatest race was her final one, the G2 Silver Screen Hdcp. when she defeated 11 males by 6 1/2L and ran the mile in 1.32 4/5 (a time later tied by Bayakoa also at Hollywood) and I believe is still a world’s record for the distance by a filly or mare on dirt. Finishing third in that race was Snow Chief the three year old champ and a multi G1 winner including the Preakness. There is no telling how great she would have been if she would have run through the balance of the year.

Lady's Secret was one of my favorite horses, I got to see her run a few times and one of my most memorable moments was getting to meet her at one of the fall sales in Kentucky. She was a very kind horse but a very small mare! One of the greatest fillies to race in this country.

Although there are many fillies of yesteryear, these two are directed at jay s., since he frequents Oaklawn: Davona Dale and Heatherten. In the only race that pitted Bold N Determined against Genuine Risk, BND won the race, GR was second, and Davona Dale was third. All three of these filly/mares would go into the Hall Of Fame. Heatherten was trained by little-known(at that time) William Mott. Back to CG1234, Lady's Secret was great.

CFC, man those horses bring back ols racing form memories. Seemed like Heaterten's picture was on the front page of the form every time she ran (back when the form only had one track listed). Unfortunately, I never say Genuine Risk of Davona Dale run in person. If I remember right, back then you had to be 16 to be allowed to enter and I never attended till I was 16. Funny, I was trying to look-up Heatherten the other day but was spelling her name Heatherton.

Another filly of the '80's: The "other" filly of 1980, Bold N Determined.

LAZ you have done it again. You have made me feel so oblivious and ignorant about horse racing ;) The one I loved a lot Althea. TO BE HONEST I don't remember Melair very well........

I agree with Ruffian's comment. Thanks, LAZ. To have someone as knowledgable as you compliment me is awesome!

Cowgirl: FYI: Back then, horses were bred and trained differently. We (The World) bred for soundness and stamina. Nowadays, horses are NO WHERE near sound. As you know, I know you are new, but you said you been following this year, MANY of the top three year olds went down unsound, career ending injuries. Back in the days, horses would run every ten days and stuff, on a two race a month schedule. In the 70's and earlier, (I know you are new, but I assume you know what the KY Derby is) trainers and owners were to look for preps a couple weeks before the KY, now, trainers and owners take a major prep three to five weeks before it. Actually, by the 80's soundness was SLOWLY declining. It slowly declined and is continuing to decline until the present day. JUST TO BE CLEAR, Cow Girl, this issue is only existing in the U.S. Every where else stamina exists in racing. Still, fourty five races is cool, no matter when in history. Glad to see a new horse lover on the site, cogirl, I hope you'll stick around, TRUST ME, you'll learn a lot ;).

CLASSIC example of an honest animal pushed to the point that racing no longer was a priority. I can recall her bolting on the clubhouse turn, piriful, all because of Mr. Ego pushing her on and on when EVERYON ELSE saw that she was screaming for a rest. Heatless egoist ass of a trainer, old D. Wayne...Used to follow all his drug positives at Los Alamitos before he began poisoining the t-bred with than gonadotropin GARBAGE.