Fox Hill Farms, Inc.

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Rick Porter

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What the Nation is saying about Fox Hill Farms, Inc....

Fair Grounds: Havre de Grace Getting Sharper

Fox Hill Farms’ Havre de Grace, honored as 2011 Horse of the Year at last month’s Eclipse Awards dinner, is moving forward, according to trainer Larry Jones. “She’s been galloping every day for a couple of weeks now,” said Jones. “She’s getting pretty sharp now. I let her stretch her legs for...Read More

Source: horseracingnation.com · Posted 7 days ago ·

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dubby30 · Currently Havre De Grace is at Fairgrounds instead of at Oaklawn where the filly prepped for her HOY campaign last year, the question that is intriguing is why. Why would Larry Jones stray away from what he previously stated was the best place to train a horse to go down to a Fairgrounds race course that has not produced a legitimate triple crown contender or eclipse award winning horse in many years. Jones was even quoted as saying that "Last year" his star filly Havre De Grace "had some issues we had to take care of, plus we have a better track to train on", referring to the Fairgrounds oval where they are stabled at this year. It will be interesting to see if he is able to develop his horses into contenders coming out of that area. More importantly, will these connections at any point be honest with the fans and the public about the ongoing fued with Pat Pope the racing secretary at Oaklawn and Delaware Park where HDG and Blind Luck hooked up in an epic stretch duel to see BL prevail by a nose while receiving a 2 lb weight allowance from HDG. It has been rumored that there was a dispute and some harsh words after the race towards the racing secretary Pat Pope and the connections stated that they would not run at Oaklawn and Jones stated that he would not stable or start "ANY" of his horses at Oaklawn this year. This would mean the skipping of the G3 Azeri to run in the ungraded N.O Ladies and skipping the G1 Apple Blossom to run in the G2 New Orleans Handicap. Interesting situation has developed here, stay tuned for an update. Right or Wrong it looks as if FHF and or Larry Jones horses wont be seen at Oaklawn. · 4 days ago ·

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Joyful Victory Targets Tiffany Lass

Fox Hill Farms’ Joyful Victory, post time favorite for last spring’s Grade I Kentucky Oaks after winning Oaklawn’s Grade II Fantasy and Grade III Honeybee stakes, breezed five furlongs Monday in 1:01.40 at Fair Grounds in preparation for the upcoming $75,000 Tiffany Lass Stakes Feb. 11 at the New O...Read More

Source: horseracingnation.com · Posted 7 days ago ·

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Havre de Grace Named Horse of the Year

Havre de Grace was crowned the Horse of the Year for 2011 at the annual Eclipse Award dinner Monday night. Read More

Source: bloodhorse.com · Posted 23 days ago ·

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annalefsrud@yahoo.ca · Love her and her big perfect heart · 23 days ago ·

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Havre de Grace might face males in New Orleans

Havre de Grace, who is likely to be named 2011's Horse of the Year later this month, has settled into her new home at Fair Grounds in New Orleans and began galloping under trainer Larry Jones this past weekend. And Jones revealed Monday that he and owner Rick Porter might have a loftier comeback rac...Read More

Source: espn.go.com · Posted 29 days ago ·

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dubby30 · No reason to start off against males, but certainly wouldnt be appropriate to run in an ungraded stakes, there is a race at Oaklawn Park called the Grade 3 Azeri Stakes which has a $150k purse. Zenyatta's people felt no need to face males but 1 time per year, if facing less than stellar females was ok for her then it should be the same way with Grace. · 28 days ago ·

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Joyful Victory begins campaign in New Orleans

Source: drf.com · Posted 30 days ago ·

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Havre de Grace Wintering at Fair Grounds

Havre de Grace arrived at Fair Grounds on Thursday and is expected to make her 2012 debut in the New Orleans Ladies Stakes on March 17. Read More

Source: horseracingnation.com · Posted 34 days ago ·

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5:34 PM

Havre de Grace is expected to kick off her 2012 campaign in the New Orleans Ladies Stakes at Fair Grounds on March 17.

mdracing69 · 35 days ago ·

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DeadHeat · Taking the Rachel route. Hopefully that is a good prep for the AB next year with her. · 35 days ago ·

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CraigBradshaw · as horace greely once said: "come west, young lady, come west", or something like that. · 35 days ago ·

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Winplacsho · Sweet, I'll be parked in a sportsbook somewhere in Las Vegas, so I'll be checking that out. · 35 days ago ·

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travel_vic · Unlike Rachel's comeback, the track profile at FG is more paralleled with HDG's Style than was hers LONG stretch helps her style a lot · 34 days ago ·

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DeadHeat · LIKE her comeback because it starts in the same place same race. · 34 days ago ·

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Havre de Grace Chases Horse of the Year Title

In 91 previous editions of the Grade 1 Beldame at Belmont Park, 41 winners have gone on to year-end divisional honors, with one - Lady's Secret - earning Horse of the Year honors. A quarter-century later, 2011 Beldame winner Havre de Grace will be bidding to earn the right to be called the nation's ...Read More

Source: horseracingnation.com · Posted 95 days ago ·

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Havre de Grace Completes BC Classic Preparations

Fox Hill Farm’s Havre de Grace tuned up for the Breeders’ Cup Classic with an easy 5f workout in 1:02 under jockey Gabriel Saez Monday. The clockers caught her in splits of 12 2/5, 24 3/5, 36 4/5, 49 1/5 and 1:02 before galloping out six furlongs in 1:15 3/5.“It was very similar to the work before t...Read More

Source: horseracingnation.com · Posted 100 days ago ·

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Havre de Grace to Work for BC Classic Monday

Fox Hill Farms Inc.’s Havre de Grace, who arrived at Churchill Downs from Keeneland on Saturday afternoon, galloped on the main track under trainer Larry Jones after the renovation break Sunday morning and is scheduled for a five-furlong work Monday morning after the break with Gabriel Saez to ride....Read More

Source: horseracingnation.com · Posted 101 days ago ·

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BC Classic or Bust for Havre de Grace

Havre de Grace, who was pre-entered in both the Breeders’ Cup Classic (gr. I) and Breeders’ Cup Ladies Classic (gr. I), will only be entered in the Classic when final entries are drawn Oct. 31. Owner Rick Porter explained his decision Oct. 29 on his web site, rockportharbor.com “Larry (Jones) and I ...Read More

Source: bloodhorse.com · Posted 101 days ago ·

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Havre de Grace works five furlongs

Havre de Grace worked out at Keeneland on Monday in preparation for the Breeders' Cup Classic at Churchill Downs, with jockey Gabriel Saez guiding the 4-year-old filly over five furlongs in 58:60 seconds.Havre de Grace is expected to run against the boys on Nov. 5 in a bid to become the second femal...Read More

Source: sports.espn.go.com · Posted 106 days ago ·

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Keeneland: Havre de Grace at Home

Thanks to her easy-going nature, Havre de Grace, the Horse of the Year candidate racing for Rick Porter’s Fox Hill Farms, has had no problem settling into Keeneland, where she is training for her next start in the Breeders’ Cup Classic (G1) on November 5 at Churchill Downs. “Where her feed tu...Read More

Source: horseracingnation.com · Posted 117 days ago ·

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Havre de Grace Energetic Following Beldame Romp

Trainer Larry Jones reported Sunday morning that his star filly Havre de Grace came out of her 8 ¼-length victory in the Grade 1, $350,000 Beldame Invitational in excellent shape. "Everything looks good," Jones said of the 4-year-old Saint Liam filly. "She is still quite spry. All is well." After he...Read More

Source: horseracingnation.com · Posted 129 days ago ·

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PORTER LANDS FULL BROTHER TO QUALITY ROAD FOR $650,000

The Edward P. Evans dispersal continued last night at Keeneland September, and the star of the show was no surprise. Hip 183, an Elusive Quality full-brother to the brilliant performer Quality Road, led the way for the Lane's End-handled dispersal on the strength of Rick Porter’s $650,000 offer.&nbs...Read More

Source: vtablog.org · Posted 148 days ago ·

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Beldame Next Target for Havre de Grace

Trainer Larry Jones and owner Rick Porter have the Grade 1, $300,000 Beldame at Belmont Park on October 1 penciled in for the 4-year-old filly’s next start as she points toward either the Breeders’ Cup Ladies’ Classic or the Breeders’ Cup Classic at Churchill Downs in November.Read More

Source: horseracingnation.com · Posted 157 days ago ·

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Havre de Grace Defeats Flat Out in Woodward

Havre de Grace put herself squarely in the race for Horse of the Year honors on Saturday with a rousing 1 ¼-length victory over seven males in the Grade 1 Woodward. Read More

Source: horseracingnation.com · Posted 158 days ago ·

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Can Havre de Grace Beat the Woodward Boys?

Will Havre de Grace emulate Rachel Alexandra and beat the boys in Saturday's Grade 1 Woodward at Saratoga Race Course?Read More

Source: horseracingnation.com · Posted 161 days ago ·

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medlocke · IMO, Havre De Grace winning the G1 Woodward Stakes will be a much tougher ask for her than it was for Rachel Alexandra back in 2009. Because frankly, Havre De Grace will be facing a much tougher group of males than Rachel Alexandra did. When Rachel won this race in 2009, she raced against a Macho Again and Bullsbay that were without question at the end of their racing career's. Because if you check their records, neither Macho Again or Bullsbay came anywhere remotely close to winning another race after they ran in that 09' Woodward. That's definitely not case here for Havre De Grace. She's facing a field of males that many of them are still racing at the top of their game!! TJMO. · 161 days ago ·

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dubby30 · I've heard Brian Zipse repeat over and over that the males that ran in the Woodward in 09 were just coming off of Grade 1 wins in Macho Again and Bullsbay, the fact is these were horses that had excellent form. The fact that you dont recognize that that race took a great deal out of all of those horses is not surprising. · 161 days ago ·

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icyhotboo · medlocke : It may not have occurred to you but neither Macho Again or Bullsbay came close again to winning as Rachel ran them into the ground. However prior to that race they were the dominant older males beating the like of Einstein , Gio Ponti, etc. Until this post I used to respect your opinion, tho's days are gone!!!!!!! · 161 days ago ·

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AnneShaw · Unfortunately was also the swansong of Rachel's great career. She was too young to race those after the campaing she way she did that year. I will always love and admire her and think this is exactly what Mr. Hollendorfer is trying to prevent with Luck. · 160 days ago ·

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timgsmith10 · Its Because of that Grueling campaign that she became the Superstar we all loved.. I dont know why people cant see that.. · 160 days ago ·

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LAZMANNICK · OF course HDG can beat this group. The truth is, if I had two more legs I could probably bet them also. In fact even if I had one more leg. · 160 days ago ·

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LAZMANNICK · Icyhotboo. I’m not tying to be the negative on this issue on who Rachel beat, but the fact is, Macho Again defeated Einstein in the Foster only after Einstein had repeated trouble in the stretch and got clear too late. Check it out on YouTube. To show you how far out Macho’s win over Einstein was, check out the Clark at the end of the year when Macho was nine lengths behind him. You might say that Macho was rung out by Rachel. I say that Einstein was rung out by Zenyatta. I do not have any recollection of Macho ever defeating or finishing ahead of Gio Ponti. As for Bullsbay, he won his G1 in the Whitney against that same Macho Again and Commentator, who was well over the hill and was retired after the race and who, in his prime won this race twice, defeating Pacific Classic winner Student Council and eventual Woodward and BCC winner Saint Liam, both these horses on a different level when it comes to measuring class. Commentator also received 123 and 120 Beyers in these races. Other than that, it might surprise you to know that outside of Summer Bird, the horses that Rachel defeated never won a G1 route race again until I believe this year. · 160 days ago ·

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dubby30 · Laz, Rachel is retired and comfortably in foal to Curlin, let your disdain of the filly go, no one really cares about your uninformed opinion on the matter, if they were so awful a group Zenyatta should have come and taken down that race, instead they felt it more important to get another Grade 1 on paper but allowance optional claimer on paper in the Lady's Secret defeating Lethal Heat, the ever powerful 2/12 Lethal Heat, and barely got that job done, so Finishing a neck in front of a proven G1 caliber horse in MA, compared to a horse that never won a race of consequence in Lethal Heat kinda gives us all indication of your lack of common sense. You seem obsessed with running down a filly that faced and defeated males 3 out of 3 times. Your fav horse is 1/2 against males, and couldnt run down a horse that never won a 10f race before. Let it go man, you are over the top. And that's putting it nicely. · 160 days ago ·

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LAZMANNICK · Oh shame on me eh Dubby. Maybe you should practice what you preach. · 160 days ago ·

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LAZMANNICK · Dubby You seem obsessed with running down a mare that won a BCC and lost a second BCC by a few inches. · 160 days ago ·

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dubby30 · Fact is they are both retired, let them go from the convo, you let Rachel go, I'll let Zen go, until then I'll continue to point out that one finished perfect against males and the other lost to the best horse, the one that won the BC in a hand ride, while you're mare was hit almost 30 times with the whip. That Other Gear was, um lacking, lost, any word you want to use. · 160 days ago ·

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LAZMANNICK · Dubby. I’m glad to see that you turned over a new Zenyatta bashing leaf, since when, about five hours ago? How long will this one last, another five hours or so. This “you let Rachel go I’ll let Zen go” statement, didn’t you make that same olive branch statement a while back. It lasted all of about two days if I recall. In any event, my post wasn’t about Rachel (who I am not trying to denigrate) and which I thought I stated in a round about way. It was mainly about Macho Again and Bullsbay. · 160 days ago ·

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dubby30 · Well let's say you're referring to MA and Bullsbay, how are you knocking two horses that were in form and coming off of Grade 1 victories when they tested her and were repelled. Your horse racing knowledge or lack is glaring. But I'll say this, you keep your opinion on this horses and i'll listen to the editor of this website in Zipse who has stated over and over again both of those horses came into the 09 Woodward in great form, and she ran them into submission. · 160 days ago ·

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LAZMANNICK · Dubby. Don’t waste your time questioning my horse racing knowledge Dubby. What you should question is your understanding and interpretation of the true meaning of facts, not the supermarket tabloid manner of twisting the facts that you always try to do and then shove down everyone’s throat. Simple question. Where would you rank Macho Again and Bullsbay in G1 history, and where would you rank them in Woodward and Whitney history? My ranking on all counts would be right down near the bottom. Where would you rank Gio Ponti, Summer Bird (the 10F version, not the9F version), Twice Over, etc.? I would rank them much, much higher than the G2 males Rachel played with. · 160 days ago ·

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icyhotboo · The field in the Woodward Stakes of 2009 in the manner it was run was as good as any ever. Each horse at its best time took their best shot at RA who was ridden by the moron who set her up to get beat. D'Tara, was not much but had sprinters speed took her the first quarter in 22:8.0.Past The Point who gave Curlin all he could handle in the 2008 Woodward Stakes was next to take his shot followed by Bullsbay and finally Macho Again.Calvin (the moron) gave her one of the worst ride's in racing history. Finally instead of tearing her down you should appreciate what she did because its going to be a long time before you see her likes again. · 160 days ago ·

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LAZMANNICK · Horses run differently when they run against horses that have an abundant of class. That is why claimer may set track records that even G1 horses can’t approach, but put those same claimers in with those G1 horses and the G1 will most likely to be victorious. The 2009 Woodward was a superbly run race, but where Rachel, Macho Again and Bullsabay finish if it included the likes of Quality Road, Saint Liam, Ghostzapper, Curlin, Lawyer Ron, Cigar, etc. Time is impressive, but it in no way supplants class. Class is the number one characteristic in horse racing. · 160 days ago ·

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footlick · You are fighting a losing battle Laz. Class is not something that seems to be considered here. Even if each horse was at his best, nobody is taking into consideration how good that actually proved to be. You are beating your head against the wall. · 160 days ago ·

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ruffed grouse · LAZMANNICK. You are correct in regards to the class factor. There is always the occasional freak, but I have worked stake horses with a lesser caliber horse and even if they want to and are capable of staying alongside they just drop back. There is always a pecking order from the paddock to the track. · 160 days ago ·

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timgsmith10 · R.A in 2009 was amazing case closed. · 160 days ago ·

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icyhotboo · Any elementary fan knows about class. However horses determine their class not us. Take a top allowance horse and put him in with a mediocre grade 3 and the graded hore will win. That was a real tough one. As for Ghostapper, Quality Road, Curlin, Lawyer Ron, Cigar, unfortunately they didn't show up for the 2009 Woodward Stakes but Macho Again and Bullsbay did so I am dealing with the reality instead of the fiction because in anything you do "you play the hand your dealt" and Ladies and Gentlemen I'm talking about the real year 2009 when it happend not when you wanted it to happen and who you want to add to the list of entries. Make valid argument and I'll give consideration to your threads but as of now I choose to live in the real world not some virtual race that never happened. On the other hand you pick a race you think was strong and others think was weak then proceed to make an argument for the winner and after taking your time to do this someone runs out of left field and yells "but Secretariat, Citation, Spectacular Bid, etc. weren't there. This is exactly whats happening. · 160 days ago ·

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footlick · icyhotboo- but by that definition you cannot ever compare any horse unless they raced in that race in that year. That is a rather existentialistic point of view in regards to horse racing. The only way you can measure the strength or weakness of a field is to compare it to the stellar horses who have won it in the past. They do that for every major race in the world. It has nothing to do with the real world. It has to do with the ability to evaluate the class of horse running. If you really believe what you said then you cannot make any statements regarding any horse other than in the context of the specific race you are talking about. You cannot compare Secretariat to Man O War because they never raced in the same race. You cannot compare Sea-Bird to Ribot because they never raced in the same race. So then there would be no way to evaluate greatness because you are only judging by that particular race without bringing in past standards to compare it to. You have to evaluate by the past to be able to rank the present, imo. · 160 days ago ·

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mrsmaryzinke · Icy, This might be an icy-lated time, but I agree with you. · 160 days ago ·

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icyhotboo · footlick : you know I respect your views but the point I have been constantly trying to make only to be met with criticism is that Rachel Alexandra faced the best available older horses. I admit they weren't great but as a group they formed a perfect team to put her to the ultimate test and she passed. I really resent when a horse of her caliber isn't given their just due. I would make the same case for any horse of her caliber who was stuck facing the opponent's that were available but not really worthy in the eyes of some. As for speculating on the greatness of horses who never faced each other, especially from different eras well that can be a lot of fun but not very realistic due to track changes, equipment changes, etc. I guess I'm kind of an oddball as I was a fervent fan of both Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra and I can relate to the antagonism between the two camps because back in the 60s it was that way with Dr. Fager and Damascus, both truly great horses as I believe these two contemporaries were very special and should have raced against each other a few times.Can you imagine what that would have done for this sport.You were right when you said you needed passion to even post because horses evoke a passion in me that could be called insanity. Have a nice day all and I appreciate your input, pro or con. · 160 days ago ·

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footlick · icyhotboo- I would have never criticized you if you had just stated that. All she could do is face what lined up to race against her. That doesn't mean that you cannot compare fields to determine the strength of competition. I will give you an example of another three year old filly who ran in the Woodward. Her name was Summer Guest. She had battled Susan's Girl all year in her division. When she lost the Beldame to Susan's Girl, that field included the older fillies/mares Typecast and Manta. Birch felt he had to run Summer Guest in the Woodward to try to get the championship. That year, the Woodward was at 12 furlongs. The field in included Key to the Mint, Riva Ridge and Autobiography. She finished second in the race, but was placed third because she crossed over on Autobiography on the first turn. She is never mentioned, basically forgotten. But consider the quality of competition she had to face in her division, in the older filly/mare division and the horses she had to face in her Woodward and a distance of ground that most say is more difficult for females to beat males. Is it fair to say that Rachel, who was a brilliant horse, faced the same caliber of horse? That is all I am trying to point out. It isn't a slam on Rachel because she was a brilliant horse. But racing cannot be a vacuum where one race is isolated and cannot be compared for strength or weakness. I respect your opinion also, and this is just my opinion. No criticism of you is meant or intended. This will be my last post abut it, also. Just wanted to give you an example of where my thinking is coming from. · 159 days ago ·

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LAZMANNICK · Icyhotboo. You are correct when stating that the 2009 Woodward field was what it was. However, the field that competed in the 2009 Woodward and the manner in which they competed in no way can be compared to some of the great fields that contested the Woodward in the past. You could take a field of 5K claimers, have them run within a second of the track record, have a great stretch long battle with one of them prevailing by a nose, and that would be considered a great race. And we have seen this scenario play out so often in the past. However, at the end of the day the race was still a 5K claimer. Put the two horses that hit the wire noses apart in a good quality allowance of in a 20K claiming race and they would perform entirely differently. We have seen that scenario play out many times in the past also. Some people think that time is the most important element in handicapping. Beyers are based solely on time. In how many races does the horse with the best Beyer win? Class is so important, much more important than time. That’s why we have so many level claiming races and a graded stakes system. So, without trying to knock Rachel, if you think that the 2009 Woodward was anywhere near the quality of so many other Woodwards in the past, sorry, but you are wrong. In my estimation, the only weaker Woodward was the 2010. · 159 days ago ·

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mdelmatt · Based on my figs, Havre de Grace is the most likely winner Saturday and Flat out a clear second most likely winner. Then Rule and Mambo Mesister. Giant Oak is next most likely but he is much more apt to get a piece than win the whole thing. If you want a live longshot on the card, try Golddigger's Boy (15-1 on ML) in the Forego (Race 9). · 159 days ago ·

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dubby30 · I don’t think that anyone would make the statement that the Woodward was a strong field of horses that lined up in 2009, only 3 grade 1 winners. But if you take into consideration the field that lined up in the 2009 Breeders Cup you could certainly say the same thing, that field was comprised of: Gio Ponti, Twice Over, and Rip Van Winkle, all turf horses of those only Gio had synthetic experience and by means of his 5th place and up the track performance previously you would have to say it was not a surface he relished. Summer Bird, Regal Ransom, MTB and Girolamo were unfamiliar with the surface and Summer Bird detested it so much that his owners sent him from John Sadler’s barn out at SA to Tim Ice to get him away from the surface, so he showed great class by finishing in the same position Curlin did in 08. Richard’s Kid, Colonel John, Awesome Gem and Einstein were all horses that had run previously on the surface but certainly were as inconsistent a group as you’d ever see, but the uninformed try to pretend as if this was some stellar group. And if you put the dirt horses back on dirt, and add Zenyatta to that mix you will probably see what you saw in 2010, her losing, when you put the turf horses in that mix, its not a stretch to say she would have probably found it difficult to win anything on turf with the way that most good turf horses run exactly like she ran. On top of that is the fact that very few horses are bred to stay the 10 furlong trip and do it competitively leaves one wondering and speechless why Zenyatta wasn’t entered in more 10furlong races instead of staying in 8.5 furlong races over 50% of her career. Or why if these races that include the Woodward and Whitney and JCGC and SA Handicap and HWGC and Pac Classic and Goodwood are so awful why is it that Zenyatta never stepped into those starting gates not one time. Hmm So while some connections want their horse to be campaigned as a champion all year long, the Moss’s only wanted to be called champion on BC day, and that my friends is what is ruining the sport, QR and Blame went their separate ways after the Whitney. The same happened with Flat Out and Tizway this year, protecting records to be able to be in line for yearend honors, unlike the way they campaign in Europe in facing the best all year long. You can't be considered great by taking on the supposed best 1 time per year in an attempt to get honors thru the back door. your campaign has to be worthy, ala Curlin 07/08, Rachel 09, Blame-Blind Luck-goldikova 2010. Im just saying. · 159 days ago ·

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LAZMANNICK · Dubby this isn’t about Zenyatta, it’s about the 2009 Woodward. The 2009 Woodward was what it was. For the most part it wasn’t a race filled with top class horses. Sure Da’ Tara and Macho Again and Bullsbay were grade one winners, but once again why don’t you examine their G1 wins. Da’ Tara won 2 races in 19 tries, one a maiden, the other a Belmont when he was the longest shot in the race and basically inherited the win when Big Brown was pulled up and the others, including Macho Again, couldn’t get the distance. He also made zero boards in five other graded stakes races. Macho’s win in the Foster was against a deeply trouble Einstein who, the next time they met, finished 9 lengths in front of him. Bullsbays’ was gained against that same Macho Again and an over the hill Commentator, a two time winner of the Whitney with Beyers of 123 and 120 and who, on even a fairly good day would have trounced both him and Macho. All three of their G1 wins were “tainted” to some degree. If Big Brown doesn’t pull up, Einstein doesn’t get into serious trouble and Commentator was even a remote version of himself, then the 2009 Woodward would basically be the same as the 2010, a race with only the favorite being a G1 winner. Regarding class in this race, Rachel had it, no doubt about it, because she refused to lose even when whipped 20 or so times (a lot of horses would have quit with that much abuse). However, Bullsbay showed a distinct lack of top level class when he made a big move on the turn, looked like he was going to go right on by, and hung. Macho showed his lack of top level class when from the 16th pole home, and with a ton of momentum, he had every chance to win, but couldn’t gain the desired foot or two needed to get past Rachel. My question is, do you think Rachel would have gotten close to just about every other winner of the Woodward in the past and do you think she would have prevailed if a real, bona-fide G1 horse would have been nose to nose with her in that last 16th? · 159 days ago ·

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shadowno · I will always have a fondness for Bullsbay due to a nice payday in the Whitney, but in all fairness he was a wildly inconsistent horse. · 159 days ago ·

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icyhotboo · LAZMANNICK : please read my prior thread where I give a brief explanation of class because for you to post your thread you either didn't see or didn't understand it! dubby30: I didn't post my thread about RA for you to use as a springboard to degrade Zenyatta's accomplishments, as you seem to have a mental disturbance about that. How do you sleep nights knowing she got horse of the year because EXPERTS agreed even though she lost one race she was in fact the best.A precedent was set for that in 1954 when Native Dancer only raced 3 times and won HOTY.PLEASE give us a rest from that drivel.I don't mind honest criticism but I do mind cheap shots! · 159 days ago ·

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icyhotboo · footlick: I appreciate your responses and the fact you do so without sarcasm. I realize many times Woodward fields have been assembled who with the exception of Rachel were much better than this. The point I obviously failed to make was the race was run in such a way as she got no breather as they came at her relentlessly. I was there and felt both elation and sadness knowing she would need at least six months to recover.As an aside at the distance of 1 1/8 mile I would put her in with any of the great ones as I would Zenyatta at 1 1/4. Your point to me that racing isn't fair was not lost as I've owned horses(all standard bred) and on two occasions they were hit by lightning. On another the driver while leading in the stretch with a 10 length lead in a race in which I had a big bet fell out of the sulky , dead drunk. Your comment are always welcome as it seems you enlighten me about many things in racing of which I had no prior knowledge. Have a nice day. · 159 days ago ·

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BrianZipse · I am a little late to this discussion, but please allow me to add my two cents ... At ages 3 and 4, Macho Again won the: Stephen Foster, Jim Dandy, New Orleans Handicap, and Derby Trial. He was also was 2nd in the Preakness, Whitney, Super Derby, and of course, the Woodward. The fact that he was never the same after Rachel defeated him in the Woodward, in a race that could not have been better set up for him I might add, should in no way be held against Rachel. At the time of the Woodward, he was a very good horse. · 159 days ago ·

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CauseForConcern · I wanted to make reference to those that constantly refer to Grade 1 competition. I don't know who rates the quality of the races, but, for the longest time they would ignore the Arkansas Derby as a Grade 1, despite the fact that it was a $1 million dollar race, and had the likes of Curlin, Smarty Jones, and Afleet Alex in successive years. They finally got that honor. And yet, Santa Anita can create a new race, and it automatically gets Grade 2 level, without ever having a race run. As much as we discuss horses, every horse has to start somewhere, and it wasn't Grade 1 competition. Let the best horse win, and he/she doesn't know what level of competition they are beating. · 159 days ago ·

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kincaidd · What # race is the Woodward? · 159 days ago ·

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footlick · icyhotboo- thanks for the compliment. I enjoy yours as well. I don't want to belabor the point, so I won't. If you just take Susan's Girl, Typecast, Key to the Mint, Riva Ridge and Autobiography, you can see what level of horse she ran against as a three year old filly. And she held her own. And she is forgotten. This is why I have to go by something more than time and open length wins. That is how I learned to evaluate relative strength of races and relative strength of the horse. I could be totally wrong, but it is how I was taught. That is why I talk about class and strength of field and that is why I feel they are important. Rachel ran a gutsy race. It isn't her race that I am criticizing. Anyway, I have had enough of this topic. Have a great day too. And thanks again. · 159 days ago ·

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4everZenyatta · I truly don't undertsnad what ehr connections are trying to prove. If she wins this, I highly doubt it will prove anything, except that her fan will try to make her seem like super horse. Yes, I agree that she is an amazing mare, the 4th in recent years, (Rachel Alexandra, Zenyatta, Blind Luck, Harve de Grace) I think she is great, but in my opinion it would have been smarter for her connections to sharpen her up for the Classic if they really want to run her against the boys. If she wins this, yes she may be eligable for Horse of the Year, but it might also burn her out. Running against this type of competition is hard on a filly/mare. (Not that they are weaker than colts/stallions/geldings, but the fact is that they are more used to racing agaisnt their own sex, and it is just easier for them to sharpen.) I think that this was a mistake on the connections part and shouldn't be trying to prove their amazing mare so much when she is so easily doing it on her own. · 158 days ago ·

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LAZMANNICK · The bit about Macho was not about Rachel, but was in answer to someone saying that Macho was a top colt. Overall he won 6 of 24 races with a win in a maiden and another in an allowance. His record at three and four was good, but the competition in most of those races didn’t have much success in G1 races later in their careers. Who was the best horse that Macho Again ever beat when winning a race. The answer has to be Einstein, and perhaps Kodiak Kowboy, who when Macho beat him in the Derby Trial stakes was basically an unheralded winner of a G3 and G2 in its first nine races and wouldn’t come into its own until after switching barns to Steve Asmusseen and then Larry Jones. The victory against Einstein was because of Einstein’s constant trouble in the Foster as noted in the DRF note at the end of his line: “bobbled, checked, bumped” and the race caption: “bobbled at the start to get away a bit slow; checked off heels near the seven-eights marker; was bottled up between horses down the backstretch and through the second turn; shifted out a bit and found a seam entering the stretch; was bumped and shuffled behind rivals with three-sixteenths to run; got through on the inside late but was left with too much to do”. That was Macho’s lone G1 win with Einstein finishing third and Asiatic Boy, a world trooper, but never the winner of a G1 or Group One race, finishing second.. Yes he won a few graded races, but he could never be considered a top colt because of his inconsistency. He was one for seven in G1’s, was 6th in the G3 LaComte; 7th in the G2 Lane’s End; 2nd in the G1 Preakness at 39-1; 5th in the G1 Belmont to Da’Tara; 8th in the G1 Travers; 2nd in the G2 Super Derby; 6th in the Woodchopper; 7th in the Sunshine Millions; 6th in the G3 Alysheba; then he had his summer of 2009 with the G1 Foster, G1 Whitney and G1 Woodward). His career after the Woodward was uneventful: 4th in the G1 JCGC; 9th in the G2 Clark (Blame, Misremembered and Einstein the top three a neck apart); 7th in the G3 Alysheba (Bullsbay 9th); and 10th to Blame in the G1 Foster in 2010. Rachel beat him and Bullsbay when it looked like she was finished and they were going to go by because she had superior class, which was the point I was trying to make. · 158 days ago ·

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icyhotboo · Macho Again- Record 24: 6-6-0- Earnings $1,825,767. Not bad for a second stringer. · 158 days ago ·

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RamonDimas · theres a lot of diffrence between RACHEL and GRACE!! · 158 days ago ·

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Havre de Grace Exercises at Saratoga

Havre de Grace, bidding to join Rachel Alexandra as the only fillies ever to win the Grade 1, $750,000 Woodward, had an easy jog around Saratoga’s main track this morning with trainer Larry Jones in the irons. “She was nice and loose today,” said Jones of the 4-year-old Saint Liam filly, who ...Read More

Source: horseracingnation.com · Posted 160 days ago ·

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Havre de Grace Arrives at Saratoga

Havre de Grace, the filly star of Saturday's Grade 1, $750,000 Woodward Stakes, arrived at Saratoga Race Course shortly before 6 p.m. Wednesday."We had a very uneventful trip," said trainer Larry Jones. "It was good coming through New York at this time of day. She's come in good." Jones, who persona...Read More

Source: horseracingnation.com · Posted 161 days ago ·

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