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Belmont 2013
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Loading…
Ticker
Wise Dan
targets the G2 Firecracker 'Cap at Churchill on June 29.
Posted 1 hour ago
Jockey
Chantal Sutherland
will return to saddle at Del Mar.
Posted 9 hours ago
Itsmyluckyday
to skip Belmont Stakes 2013 in favor of Pegasus Stakes on 6-16.
Posted 9 hours ago
Rosie Napravnik will ride
Code West
in Belmont Stakes 2013.
Posted 9 hours ago
From DRF (The Inside Post):
Mylute
will not run in Belmont Stakes 2013.
Posted 1 day ago
Eblouissante
breezed 4f :49.17 (18/44) at Belmont (dirt Training) on 5-22.
Posted 1 day ago
Giant Finish
will make his next start in Belmont Stakes 2013.
Posted 1 day ago
Unlimited Budget
is expected to face males in Belmont Stakes 2013.
Posted 3 days ago
Verrazano
will make his next start in the Pegasus Stakes at Monmouth on 6-16.
Posted 3 days ago
Dreaming of Julia
will make her next start in the Mother Goose at Belmont on 6-22.
Posted 3 days ago
Home
/
Horses
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Frankel
Ride
Frankel
against other champions!
Frankel
5 year old Horse
Retired
48
fans
48
43
favorites
43
[Edit]
Loading…
Owner(s):
Prince Khalid Abdullah
-
Trainer:
Sir Henry Cecil
Bred:
(GB)
by
Juddmonte Farms Ltd
Pedigree:
Galileo
-
Kind
by
Danehill
Rating:
8.86/10
My Rating:
No rating
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Eclipse Sportswire
Profile
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What the Horse Racing Nation is saying about Frankel...
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Farhh no longer second best in Lockinge
Second in no fewer than four Group 1 contests in 2012, Farhh would burst back onto the British racing scene in 2013 with renewed vigour, determination and in a league of his own as he powered away for a facile four length success in the Group 1 Lockinge Stakes at Newbury.
Read More
Posted
4 days ago ·
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0
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Comment
Show All 1 Comments
ARBY
·
With Godolphin owning a part of Animal Kingdom the Queen Anne Stakes / Prince of Wale's Stakes could be the AK Farhh double for the stable.
· 3 days ago ·
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0
Frankel
Not sure if this is official, but here is a new conformation shot of Frankel - http://www.thoroughbredchampions.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4620&stc=1&d=1365790263
Posted by
Northport
·
41 days ago ·
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3
3
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Comment
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AnnaK
·
Very nice, thank you Northport. How can you not like that.
· 41 days ago ·
like
2
2
Mary Z.
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Thanks, Northport. Brought back a memory.
· 41 days ago ·
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0
Mary Z.
·
http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse-racing-steve-haskin/archive/2011/10/15/floored-by-frankel.aspx
· 40 days ago ·
like
0
0
jay s.
·
Nice photo! Man, he sure was a looker. (I don't think I've ever said those five words together before)
· 40 days ago ·
like
0
0
Retired in 2012, But Not Forgotten
Before we look ahead to a new racing season, let's take pause to say good-bye and good luck to those that are leaving the track and moving on to their second careers
Read More
Posted
153 days ago ·
like
2
2
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Comment
Show All 22 Comments
BrianZipse
·
Slightly depressing to peruse this list, but great work on it, Ashley!
· 153 days ago ·
like
0
0
sdj777
·
Why were horses so much more durable in the past?
· 153 days ago ·
like
0
0
Floridaf
·
It was depressing putting this list together. So many of my favorites are on here. Shackleford probably could have raced for a few more years and never had a problem, but I'm happy he's retiring sound. He'll be a great sire, in my opinion.
· 153 days ago ·
like
1
1
AnnaK
·
Really sorry to see some of these leave the track so soon. To add some my favourites who were at least older and proven durables, Jackson Bend, Awesome Gem and Musketier.
· 153 days ago ·
like
3
3
yukichan
·
Another one to add to this list of great talent--- Switch--- proud of her last race...
· 153 days ago ·
like
3
3
Floridaf
·
Great additions to the list AnnaK and yukichan!
· 153 days ago ·
like
0
0
suzanne.brownrigg.3
·
One of my favorites not mentioned was It's Tricky. Loved her--full of spunk.
· 153 days ago ·
like
1
1
yukichan
·
At least we can celebrate their second careers...the list that really saddens me is the truly gone, but not forgotten "In memory of" annual list
· 153 days ago ·
like
1
1
AndyScoggin
·
Very interesting list.
· 153 days ago ·
like
0
0
SallyWatanabe
·
58 horses
· 153 days ago ·
like
0
0
notobsessed
·
All of my favorites are retired except for Animal Kingdom :(
· 151 days ago ·
like
0
0
ScottDick
·
It's crazy how many outstanding horses retired this year. Three "Awesome" horses alone.
· 151 days ago ·
like
0
0
UnionRagsRules
·
Union Rags... they champ who never really got to run... in the Belmont he showed you keep me up there and I'll win. What a horse. I think IHA and UR (as crazy as it may sound to IHA fans) could have battled it out as four year olds. They both had the talent and heart and when you let each run they were amazing. Great list, loved reading it!
· 150 days ago ·
like
1
1
EskendereyaChampion
·
I will be really miss only one horse, which isn't mentioned here, - California Flag. True champ
· 145 days ago ·
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0
0
travel_vic
·
Union Rags races, or rather his press clippings suggested champion, maybe at two, but perfromance on the track at three said also ran.
· 145 days ago ·
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0
0
Lisa111
·
Will miss seeing Jackson Bend and Shackleford the most. It was always an exciting race when they were involved.
· 145 days ago ·
like
3
3
rafirox
·
I think I'll miss Shackleford's white blaze more than anything. Beautiful horse, gigantic. I think he will be great at stud. Such a depressing list. I'll also miss JAckson Bend, a horse who had all heart.
· 145 days ago ·
like
4
4
forego139
·
The one I'm sorry to see retire was Zazu, she never really got to show just how good she really was. Maybe her full brother can rectify that this year by showing just how good this blood line really is.
· 98 days ago ·
like
1
1
zxswordxz
·
Will always remember Union Rags, the horse that had a lot of misfortune. Wrong jockey, bad post position in the derby. I love you Union Rags. This is the third horse in my life that I feel in love with instantly, my first was Sunday Silence then Point Given.
· 98 days ago ·
like
1
1
CarolynBarg
·
What about Switch?
· 41 days ago ·
like
0
0
On The Gallop's
·
Union rags...never saw it sorry. My list from 2012 is Frankel, Danedream, Switch, Musketier, Caleb's Posse and Shackleford.
· 41 days ago ·
like
0
0
On The Gallop's
·
ALSO Fame and Glory and So You Think.
· 41 days ago ·
like
0
0
Frankel
Have Gun--Will Not Travel>>He will service a limited number of Southern Hemisphere mares>>But they must come to him.
Posted by
amino998
·
57 days ago ·
like
0
0
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Comment
Show All 4 Comments
Northport
·
but Juddmonte is willing to pay up to $10k for SH mares that want to travel to come to him
· 57 days ago ·
like
0
0
AmbitiousD
·
I wonder if that includes Black Caviar
· 57 days ago ·
like
0
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amino998
·
Bloodhorse says $15K>probably 10K Pounds>and I recently read a Black Caviar to race at Ascot and be bred there story, so cross your fingers.
· 57 days ago ·
like
0
0
Buckpasser
·
With Black Caviar, I thought this was one of the reasons for racing her again at Ascot was that she would then be bred to Frankel. I believe they were discussing this point on TVG.
· 57 days ago ·
like
1
1
Frankel
It's interesting how horses named after people generally do very well. Frankel, Bernardini. I wonder if there are any that don't.
Posted by
cocoa2
·
74 days ago ·
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0
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Comment
Show All 10 Comments
amino998
·
They are legion.
· 74 days ago ·
like
0
0
Peppermint Paddy
·
Darwin
· 74 days ago ·
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0
0
cocoa2
·
But more recently passed?
· 74 days ago ·
like
0
0
shadowno
·
Calipari. broke maiden but not much else.
· 74 days ago ·
like
0
0
Northport
·
Who was Bernardini named after?
· 73 days ago ·
like
0
0
cocoa2
·
I am assuming one of the many men in the game named Bernardini
· 73 days ago ·
like
0
0
amino998
·
Willie Brown just ran last in a $16,000 claimer.
· 73 days ago ·
like
0
0
drvivianbell
·
I read on ESPN that Barnardini is named for race car driver Patrick Bernardini; sire A.P. Indy is named for a track in Japan.
· 73 days ago ·
like
0
0
drvivianbell
·
Oh, yeah, I’m very sorry for spelling the horse's name incorrectly; of course, it's Bernardini (I've noted that HRN folks can be a bit pedantic about spelling errors).
· 73 days ago ·
like
0
0
Sysonby
·
Oprah Whinney
· 73 days ago ·
like
0
0
New to the Bluegrass: Bullet Train
In January, breeders and race fans alike were excited at the announcement that Bullet Train, ¾ brother to the English Superhorse Frankel, was headed to stud in Kentucky. The stallion adds needed stamina to the US gene pool.
Read More
Posted
84 days ago ·
like
1
1
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Comment
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Mike in SB
·
It is interesting that he is being advertised as "Lasix Free"', I wonder how important that is to American breeders?
· 83 days ago ·
like
0
0
travel_vic
·
WORLD WIDE it is becoming the STANDARD to be required to list mecdications in sales catalogs and many are now being thought considerable less of as the result. Was it the horse or the pharmalogical boost we all saw on the track? Why guess and go with those without the history of being "hooked" by their frightened and paranoid connections.
· 83 days ago ·
like
2
2
cocoa2
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Watch out for that looooooooooooong back, otherwise very nice shoulder, power haunches, good neck.
· 83 days ago ·
like
0
0
Frankel
"First date" honor went to Midday. Juddmonte reported she was the first mare to be bred to the mighty Frankel. She delivered a Galileo colt on January 16, you may remember.
Posted by
yukichan
·
97 days ago ·
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0
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Frankel
Frankel's first book includes (as of now) almost 60 Group 1 winners and/or producers - http://www.juddmonte.com/news/2013/110213FrankelBookOfMares.aspx
Posted by
northport
·
101 days ago ·
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0
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Show All 16 Comments
Dressage3295
·
I am DROOLING over this line up. Really excited to see the Oatsee x Frankel cross
· 101 days ago ·
like
2
2
TimSmith
·
Of all of the potential horses and oatsee is the one you look forward to?
· 101 days ago ·
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0
0
northport
·
I am excited for Alexander Goldrun, Midday, and Stacelita the most probably, although it is hard to pick favourites in such a nice book. Coolmore are sending 15 of their own mares to Frankel, although the list of exactly who won't be released
· 101 days ago ·
like
0
0
Dressage3295
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Did I say it was the only one I was looking forward too? No, so quit with the sass. Oatsee is a blue hen. We've seen some very good foals come from her. Cross her with the incredible Frankel, and you're looking at a horse that could possibly do wonders. Not to mention I'll get to see this one race in the US (hopefully)
· 101 days ago ·
like
3
3
TimSmith
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lol .. Ill be intersted in the goldikova colt
· 101 days ago ·
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0
0
SSilence86
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Goldikova's colt is by Galileo not Frankel. She is also being bred back to Galileo
· 101 days ago ·
like
2
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rafirox
·
I agree, Dressage. Oatsee is a great broodmare, and Frankel one of the best euro horses I have seen in my life. The Midday X Frankel will be fun,
· 101 days ago ·
like
2
2
rafirox
·
Balance is breeding to Frankel..... Her babies have been failure, but at least we'll see that Vertiginuex X Galileo cross :)
· 101 days ago ·
like
1
1
TimSmith
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my bad
· 101 days ago ·
like
0
0
rafirox
·
Also excited to see Danedream X Frankel. Two superstars breeding....
· 101 days ago ·
like
2
2
yukichan
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Vodka!
· 101 days ago ·
like
0
0
SSilence86
·
I think Zagora X Frankel could be fun. Oatsee X Frankel is intriguing as the foal likely will be based in the US.
· 101 days ago ·
like
1
1
AmbitiousD
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All the comments above pretty much sum up my feelings. I am also looking forward to the Stacelita X Frankel foal
· 101 days ago ·
like
0
0
kaitlinefree1
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Dressage you just made my night "so quit with the sass." xD hahahahahaha.
· 100 days ago ·
like
1
1
Dressage3295
·
Happy to provide you with your daily humor ;)
· 100 days ago ·
like
1
1
TimSmith
·
Ohh dressage you dog you
· 100 days ago ·
like
0
0
Frankel
What has Frankel been doing whilst in retirement? Facinating upclose and personal video special on him and his daily life: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVLCpp_G4YM
Posted by
yukichan
·
103 days ago ·
like
0
0
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Comment
Show All 8 Comments
northport
·
He looks like quite a ham... I am glad to see him doing well in retirement, it's cool that in addition to getting turned out, they also go for 7 mile walks every day
· 103 days ago ·
like
1
1
kay.robinett
·
I have often thought that keeping stallions physically active might keep them healthy both physically and mentally. Love the farms that exercise their stallions.
· 103 days ago ·
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2
2
cocoa2
·
Man O' War went for a daily jog until the day he died
· 103 days ago ·
like
0
0
know it all
·
cocoa puff where do u get your info ? dreamer...yeah im sure when he was 29 they put a saddle on him and jogged.As for jogging in his turn out pasture im sure he planned a daily jog followed by lunch and a shower...really some of u people watch too many horse movies
· 103 days ago ·
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0
0
cocoa2
·
As a 22 year old: http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh269/equestriancdr/ManoWar.jpg
· 103 days ago ·
like
0
0
cocoa2
·
Did you really think I meant he did it on his own initiative?
· 103 days ago ·
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0
0
rafirox
·
Kay, I agree. Here is one of my fave videos :)..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O57qMR45Y1o......... Shows Big Red running, not sure at what age, though. He is the smartest horse ever. Pause the video every couple seconds in the end, you will see he switches leads all by himself, his proud snorts :). Big Red was an asshole though.
· 103 days ago ·
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0
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rafirox
·
In that video he was 12.
· 103 days ago ·
like
0
0
Frankel's Full Brother Foaled in England
A full-brother to Frankel, who was classisfied the best Thoroughbred in the world when he retired undefeated in 14 career starts, has been foaled at Juddmonte's Banstead Manor Farm in Newmarket, England.
Read More
Source: bloodhorse.com
·
Posted
105 days ago ·
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0
0
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zxswordxz
·
Just saw a picture on Facebook of the colt. What a beauty...He is a Chestnut with a Broad Blaze.
· 105 days ago ·
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2
2
cocoa2
·
Hopefully not Barbaro, Lentenor, Nicanor, and Margano all over again
· 105 days ago ·
like
0
0
northport
·
I think since Frankel already has multiple half and full siblings of racing age (2 of the 3 have been group winners), people are much more realistic in this case. Also, Frankel is alive and was able to live out his career as planned, so I don't think there will be as many die hard fans who are hoping for some kind of divine intervention.
· 105 days ago ·
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0
0
On The Gallop's
·
Well Kind has 3 graded stakes winners over 10f+ out of 3 foals...so the odds are looking good this little foal could be 4-4....one never knows I guess. he is a very cute lil fella.
· 105 days ago ·
like
0
0
yukichan
·
Frankel's full brother, Nobel Mission, certainly very talented!
· 105 days ago ·
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0
0
On The Gallop's
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Noble mission needs to step up this year. He has a won over the St Leger winner Encke but I am hoping to see him win a GR2, or GR1 when or if he returns.
· 105 days ago ·
like
0
0
On The Gallop's
·
*win
· 105 days ago ·
like
0
0
American Race Fans: Double Standard or Mizdirection?
It seems to be a clear double standard. The message would seem to be: There is no need for American horses to prove themselves by traveling outside of our cozy borders, while conversely, international horses can only truly prove themselves by running in the United States. Am I wrong, American race f...
Read More
Posted
111 days ago ·
like
0
0
·
Comment
Show All 12 Comments
ldemgyhas
·
It would be a double standard if American fans were to say "No, don't go to Dubai, but Mizdirection is the greatest horse of all time." Frankel was no doubt a great horse, but he never beat the international company. Therefore no matter how great he was, he'll never be the greatest. Same with Mizdirection, he's a great turf sprinter, but he'll never be the greatest turf sprinter until he ships out of North America and beats the international company. That's the double standard.
· 111 days ago ·
like
1
1
travel_vic
·
They call the US professional baseball champ WORLD champions, and then in the international competition they don't even in the finals.....DOUBLE standards abound
· 111 days ago ·
like
2
2
dani.pugh
·
No you are not wrong. The double standard is there loud and clear. I do think America, should a horse say win in many regions of America, shouldn't be slammed. Why, because it is not just a country but an entire continent. Climate/weather and many other factors come into play when a horse travels through the US. However, should a horse stick to it's specific region, and there are several horses that do that, then it is not as impressive. I do not think Frankel should have to have left for America and flown god knows how many miles. He won all over England, and while I wish he had gone out of his own country, say Ireland or France, nobody can deny the greatness he displayed. Only those with a double standard can say he was not, for "lack of travel."
· 111 days ago ·
like
2
2
travel_vic
·
what makes a champ? ADAPTATION to whatever is thrown at him. Any horse capable of performing well in varied venues, they get lots of extra credit.
· 111 days ago ·
like
2
2
footlick
·
Thanks for writing this.
· 111 days ago ·
like
1
1
Mike in SB
·
I am not sure Mr. Cummings actually debunked the Dubai Bounce Theory, he seemed to say that all horses are affected by travel in different ways, which would be hard for anyone to disagree with. He didn't have too many examples of American horses with great success after running in Dubai, Royal Delta is one of the few I can think of. Personally I think many horses are affected by the trip to Dubai, there have been several winners of the World Cup by horses that previously won the Breeders Cup Classic, Curlin and Cigar for example, but no winners of the Classic after running in the World Cup, and many horses require months before they race again after the trip. Horses today race too few times anyway, the months break after the Dubai races only adds to the problem. I admit to being selfish but I like to see our best horses run here in the United States. As for Frankle I would have loved to see him run in the United States, but I understand why they kept him in Europe, but I think he could be critized for not running in the Arc.
· 111 days ago ·
like
1
1
AmbitiousD
·
Brian, you read my mind with this article. Like it or not, racing is now a global sport, and the new standard for top tier horses will become to travel internationally. I think all horses should travel to face the best, but I also recognize travel is tough. Using the tactics of domestic travel with shipping a few days before the race may not be the best recipe for success in the international world. A good measure should be Point of Entry and Little Mike assuming they both run the Sheema Classic at Dubai this year. Little mike having the prep in Dubai vs Point of Entry not. We know they are near equal here in the states, so all things else held equal it will be an interesting little experiment.
· 111 days ago ·
like
1
1
dubairacenight
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To Mike in SB - I wasn't really trying to debunk the myth in my comments, and using only American horses as the example doesn't work either...if their all thoroughbreds, the bounce factor should apply no matter where they return. You say to-MAY-to, I say to-MAH-to. For every anti-bounce theory, another no-bounce story emerges. In reality, it's ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT than day-to-day racing, when stakes horses go off-form and are put away for a few months. Given the spacing perpetuated in the game right now, most horses aren't starting one a month anyway, and don't miss much more than they normally would.
· 111 days ago ·
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dubairacenight
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Ugh - they're not their...
· 111 days ago ·
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lynne.dunn.1447
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i think that our american horses should stay here and not be subjected to climate change, water change, feed and the customs of any foreign country, and further more if they are sold over there and they do not pan out ...so to speak ..are they not destroyed and turned into food? I think our beloved racehorses should remain here as there are alot of people, trainers and such who will retire a horse and give him or her a pension. I do not want to sound like an idiot here...but I have 38 years in the racing industry...and I am just concerned with what has been going on here in our own country. i WISH ONLY THAT THE HORSES ALL OVER THE WORLD HAVE A GOOD LIFE. I have said my peace...Respectfully, Lynne Dunn. facebook.
· 111 days ago ·
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Ann Maree
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How long has it been since American horses were very successful in Dubai? Was it before they switched from dirt to synthetic?
· 111 days ago ·
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dubairacenight
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Kinsale King was the last winner for the US, in 2010, but numbers have been down for overall US shippers. As for Lynne's remark, I have never seen better on-track conditions anywhere in the world for stabled horses as those that exist in the UAE. They put US backsides to shame.
· 110 days ago ·
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Midday Will Be Bred to Frankel
Juddmonte on Jan. 29 announced the arrival of the first foal out of 2009 Breeders' Cup Filly & Mare Turf (gr. IT) winner Midday. The six-time group I-winning mare is booked to Frankel in 2013.
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Source: bloodhorse.com
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114 days ago ·
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On The Gallop's
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I Love Midday very much, and hope she has a very successful broodmare Career. Her Dam is also going to pay Frankel a visit. Love ya Midday!, and I wish nothing but the best for you.
· 114 days ago ·
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ldemgyhas
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I don't think Frankel will be an incredible sire. He won't be bad, but he won't live up to the hype. Good luck to the owners of Midday and I hope they get a good one.
· 114 days ago ·
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zxswordxz
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Frankel get more action than a $2 hooker.
· 114 days ago ·
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kay.robinett
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Frankel's problem will be being so closely related to so many of Britain/Ireland's top mares. They are going to have to do a lot of really close up inbreeding or look to mares from other countries.
· 113 days ago ·
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AmbitiousD
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I agree Kay. He will quickly be diluted at this rate. I doubt Frankel will ever shuttle to other areas of the globe, but if he shows good promise as a sire, expect more breeders to send their mares to England. Its already happening now. Wouldn't it be ironic if Bullet Train (standing in Kentucky) turns out to be a better sire than his younger brother?
· 113 days ago ·
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Buckpasser
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Ambitious D. I have always wondered the same thing about Bullet Train. It would be an enormous irony. And Kay you are absolutely right about all of these great mares going to Frankel and the inbreeding issues. Also having such large crops of 120 plus foals only compounds the problem. Top breeders of the past limited their great sires foal crops for exactly this reason.
· 113 days ago ·
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zxswordxz
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Bullet Train with some Stamina Mare would be interesting. I very curious to see what type of off spring Frankel produce. Like legends say...Great horses have a hard time to reproduce them self. The normally do it via their daughters.
· 113 days ago ·
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Frankel Upgraded to Best in World
FRANKEL has been confirmed as the best horse since official classifications began in 1977...
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Source: racingpost.com
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128 days ago ·
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jay s.
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Yeah, sure. Keep telling yourself that.
· 128 days ago ·
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northport
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I'm a Frankel fan, and I still think he is a tremendous horse, but this is a very puzzling act on the part of the WTR
· 128 days ago ·
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goblin
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"Puzzling" is a good way to describe it. And the revision is partially based on lowering Dancing Brave's ranking because it was "a present" to a handicapper?
· 128 days ago ·
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timgsmith10
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Lists like these are far to subjective and these people are masters at manipulating statistics... No list can tell you who was the best...
· 128 days ago ·
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kay.robinett
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I think most people realize that Frankel was a fantastic race horse. But the thing is - he is really hard to place beside other all time greats because he was so rarely challenged and because he ran at so few distances. I am aware that there were reasons his trainer did not ship him to other countries and/or stretch him out to longer distances, but it does make him hard to categorize. For example - how would you compare him to a horse who might have a coulel of defeats on his/her record but ran at a much larger variety of distances and tracks?
· 128 days ago ·
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kay.robinett
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make that a couple of defeats - as usual, wish there was a way to edit posts
· 128 days ago ·
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ruhlmann
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It so silly to label a horse "Best in World". Why isn't Zenyatta considered best in the world, after all she won more races than Frankel. Please stop this BS! He was a great horse just like many horses before him & after him.
· 128 days ago ·
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cocoa2
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Can we even compare him to Orefevre who he and Cecil ducked?
· 128 days ago ·
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northport
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winning more races than another horse doesn't make a horse great. Pepper's Pride and Rapid Redux won more races, does that mean they are the best in the world?
· 128 days ago ·
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yukichan
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Why bother with Global Timeform Ratings or Beyer Speed Figures? We humans seem to desire that--a ranking, and order. Perhaps horses/their connections need a target to aim for. Perhaps we need order to our chaos. Perhaps it is our inate desire to compare and thus we need some type of system to do so. We do it in every sport. We do it outside of sports. If your are curious as to how the team of handicappers produce the ranting, here is the link to their webiste that explains: http://www.timeform.com/show_article.asp?num=1101
· 128 days ago ·
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likin sparks
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Define "Best in the World" hmmm....so now a horse has to be lightly raced over a short career winning races in virtually the same location against good but not great competiton. You can throw the classification BS out the window, I like Frankel as much as the next guy but could not say he was the best in the world, just didn't race enough and needed travel. Now maybe if his career was prolonged and the greatest horses were sent to race against him that would change my mine, he's great but not the best.
· 128 days ago ·
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northport
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Best of all time? No. Best in the world in 2011/2012? Probably. Can't really see how he had a short career... he raced for three seasons, more than 90% of the American Stakes winning 3 y/os of 2012. The English flat season runs from May to October... and Frankel raced approximately once a month in races he was eligible for, that is a standard in almost any area with horse racing, no? How much longer would you have liked him to race? two, three more seasons? We can't even get a mediocre single G1 winner in the US to do that much, I am just happy they kept Frankel in training at four. He beat 23 G1 winners of 51 G1 races, G1 races run in Australia, Dubai, Italy, Ireland, France, Japan, US, Germany, etc. I would have loved to see him travel, but I also understand that Sir Henry Cecil was undergoing treatments for throat/stomach cancer throughout Frankel's career, making travelling for him difficult, and if you had the horse of a lifetime like that, don't tell me you would send him abroad where you could not A) see him everyday or B) Experience his victories. Cecil had to miss at least one of Frankel's victories because he was in the hospital as it is. I think the changing of older ratings for horses like Dancing Brave and Shergar was rubbish, but c'mon, you can't ignore the facts on Frankel.
· 128 days ago ·
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footlick
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The revision of Dancing Brave's rating is the problem. I' e gone round and round with people on Frankel. Not doing it again. If he ran in the Arc, someone would want him to run in the Grand National to prove himself.
· 128 days ago ·
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PhonyJJ
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If they would've sent Frankel to the US to race on our "Dirt" tracks , we sure would have broken his "Best In The World" upgrade.
· 127 days ago ·
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footlick
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Now, that is the type of comment I expect. Let's bring on some more comments about how all horses have to prove themselves on American dirt.
· 127 days ago ·
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Mary Z.
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I just wanted Frankel to attempt a Channel swim, footy ;)
· 127 days ago ·
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footlick
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Mary z., you know that to prove his greatness he would have had to swim the Atlantic to New York, then gallop across country to Santa Anita then arrive just in time to run in the dirt mile, the turf mile, the BC turf and then the BC classic. And then swim the Pacific to Japan for the Japan Cup. Then and only then would he have proved himself, but he still would have ducked the Arc.
· 127 days ago ·
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PhonyJJ
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Watch those burgers you're eating in Ireland or Britain if you live there or plan to go there anytime soon. Read this link.. http://now.msn.com/horsemeat-found-in-burgers
· 127 days ago ·
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Mary Z.
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http://www.buzzfeed.com/squidink85/pass-the-ketchup-9qp
· 127 days ago ·
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Mary Z.
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Signing my footy "like".
· 127 days ago ·
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footlick
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I never sign mine, Mary Z, but I always "like" yours too!
· 127 days ago ·
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The Best Races That Never Happened
Let's take a look back at some of the greatest horses that ran at the same time yet never crossed paths on the track.
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130 days ago ·
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dani.pugh
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So many over the last few years. Curlin and Big Brown was one I soooo wished would have happened. I was a huge Curlin fan and couldn't stand Dutrows bluffing. Zenyatta and RA at their primes would have been something. I think Zenyatta at six was slightly below her best. Her most impressive season to me was her 4yr old. Her vs Rachel would have been amazing.
· 164 days ago ·
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zatt
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Along with Ruffian, Landaluce and Princess Rooney were the greatest juvenile fillies of my lifetime, and they were contemporaries. Unfortunately neither left their respective coast, and then Landaluce tragically passed away. If the Breeders' Cup had come a few years earlier, the greatest match-up of juvenile fillies ever would have happened ... it would have been amazing!
· 164 days ago ·
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cocoa2
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Forego the greatest weight carrier? "The Chocolate Soldier" rarely caught a break but it didn't matter much to him
· 164 days ago ·
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linkz
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Makes me feel depressed about what could have been.
· 163 days ago ·
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grandstand
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Very intriguing look at what could have been! -Mary Cage
· 163 days ago ·
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rafirox
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I;m with linkz, LOL. Nice article!
· 163 days ago ·
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rafirox
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I'm not I;m
· 163 days ago ·
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Floridaf
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Zenyatta vs Rachel would have been amazing.
· 163 days ago ·
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CauseForConcern
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Very good list. One that crossed my mind, was Holy Bull's last race(where he suffered his injury). In that race, the eventual winner and up-and-rising star, was Cigar. I thought if only Holy Bull didn't get injured????
· 163 days ago ·
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SteveHerron
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Holy Bull would've smoked Cigar...IMO.
· 163 days ago ·
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GregRiessland
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i like holy bull, but i don't think he would smoke cigar. maybe on the grass he would.
· 163 days ago ·
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travel_vic
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at 10 furlongs at their peak, I would have chosen Cigar
· 163 days ago ·
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wantwoman100
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How about the biggest win i never cashed..waste of time..they need a history blog on here or i'm just getting to old for this ****
· 163 days ago ·
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travel_vic
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Z and Rachel were to meet in the Apple Blossum. I have that program that mentioned the huge purse bonus if they both showed. We know that the Z gal showed up and did well just as she would if the gutted RA had arrived as promised.
· 163 days ago ·
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travel_vic
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When you are putting good ones together of course you DO NOT MEAN MATCH RACE and that only favors speed horses.
· 163 days ago ·
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zxswordxz
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If it was a match race, RA. If it was anything under 1 1/8. I give it to RA. Over 1 1/8 and Zenyatta have the edge.
· 163 days ago ·
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Mike in SB
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If John Shirreffs had not run Zardana in New Orleans, Rachel would have won and the great race in the Apple Blossom would have happened. In hindsight Rachel was probably not at her best early in 2010 and it is hard to imagine Zenyatta not winning that race. Things would have been a lot different if Zenyatta had beaten Rachel in the Apple Blossom, she would have easily won Horse of the Year instead of the controversial win it turned out to be. I wonder if Shirreffs regrets running Zardana.
· 163 days ago ·
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Age of Reason
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Bull's eye, Mike. If ever there was a trainer and his horse that shot themselves in the foot and hoof, it was Shirreffs and Zardana. Zenyatta's HOY chances were almost hung by her own trainer's rope.
· 163 days ago ·
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AndyScoggin
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Cool idea, Matt!
· 163 days ago ·
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zxswordxz
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I'm lost here...didn't Zenyatta win HOTY in 2010? In addition, RA wasn't the same horse in 2010. I still think they could have give her a long rest period and slowing bring her back into top shape.
· 163 days ago ·
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zxswordxz
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@Mike - Agreed!
· 163 days ago ·
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hshfarms
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I am partial to Barbaro but I think he and Bernardini should be #1... The 2006 Preakness if run by a healthy Barbaro, could have set up a run at the Triple Crown. And with Dynaformer as his sire, he had a really good chance. Unlike I'll Have Another, Big Brown, or Smarty Jones who didn't have the distance breeding of Barbaro.
· 163 days ago ·
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dani.pugh
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HS, Flower Alley was a Travers winner and ran second in the Classic. He traces back to Danzig and Saddlers Wells, both Stamina influences. On IHA's dams side you'll find Arch, the sire of the 2010 BCC winner Blame, who goes to Kris S. Who can be found in Zenayatta's pedigree as well. He also has Pleasant Colony who won the Derby and Preakness and traces to Ribot, one of Europe's finest. I understand liking a particular horse, but before you say something research it. IHA's pedigree is pure stamina top and bottom
· 163 days ago ·
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travel_vic
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in the recent Melbourne Cup I understand that 18 of the top 24 were traced to Northern Dancer, just like Danzig and Sadler's Wells
· 162 days ago ·
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Intothefray
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Bernardini vs. Barbaro should be closer to the top imo. That would have been a great triple crown. Also, Zen vs. Rachel would have been amazing... I think Zen would have won however. She could outrun any horse, especially in a field as small as the Apple Blossom.
· 162 days ago ·
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Muddyshamrock
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I think you're missing a huge one in here.... Big Brown v. Curlin would have been intriguing...
· 162 days ago ·
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hshfarms
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@Dani.Pugh - Why don't you try doing some research before you spout off about someone not doing their research. Barbaro was by Dynaformer, and his get win 12f races often. The only horse you listed on IHA pedigree that won a 12f is Ribot. Its nice for you to have an infatuation with IHA, but don't insult me when what I said is clearly true. Do you know how many Flower Alley's won Classic distance races in 2012? One, IHA. How many Flower Alleys won 12f races in 2012? Zero. And your next arguement is that distance comes from the dam's side. yeah yeah, wuit trolling around insulting people about not doing their research when they clearly have.
· 162 days ago ·
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shadowno
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Zenyatta VS Nashoba's key could have made for a tremendous 2008 BCLC.
· 162 days ago ·
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forego139
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No question Zenyatta would have run by Rachael like she was standing still if they both would havd met up on the race track where questions like this get settled, but as we all know duckink Zenyatta was the only way Rachael could win HOTY or else we would of had Zwnyatta as our HOTY
· 162 days ago ·
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shadowno
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Also Ruffian VS her elders Susans Girl & Tizna in the 1975 Beldame would have been a race for the ages.
· 162 days ago ·
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dani.pugh
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I know full well who Barbaro is by, I never said he did not have stamina in his pedigree. It is you who said he had more than IHA, which is simply not true. As I just showed you IHA was bred top and bottom for Classics. Barbaro had a strong top, very strong, and a decent bottom, however if one wanted to make the argument that he couldn't seeing as how he is out of a Carson City mare they could. I also never insulted you, but said you should do your research. BTW, Bodemiester was the one i liked, not IHA. Simply correcting a misleading line made by yourself.
· 162 days ago ·
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dani.pugh
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IHA also goes back to Sea Bird, and Arc winner, at 12f. Also has Nijinsky who won the St. Leger. Caucasus, who won the Irish St. Leger is also in there. As you can see, plenty of 12f horses and those who can run farther than that in IHA's pedigree.
· 162 days ago ·
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travel_vic
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these theoreticals often are a bust. Now Typecast/Convenience was one for the ages. Ack Ack/ Cougar's Big Cap was another....but then I have seen claimers that put these to shame!
· 162 days ago ·
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cocoa2
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Barbaro ran 10f easily in a decent time. IHA ran 10f not struggling, but under wraps
· 162 days ago ·
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mattowan
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Fantastic read! thanks.
· 162 days ago ·
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LAZMANNICK
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Two year olds La Prevoyante and Secretariat in 1972. That year Big Red won 7 of 9 (lost the Champagne by DQ) and won 5 stakes. He was voted two year old champ and HOY. La Prevoyante went 12 for 12, won 10 stakes including the Selima (then a key stakes which was won by all the top two year fillies) by 14 lengths. She was also voted two year old filly champ, HOY in Canada, and was second in HOY balloting to Secretariat (the only time that two year olds finished one-two in the voting). My distance would have been at a mile, a distance in which they both finished first, La Prevoyante in the Frizette and Secretariat in the Champagne. It would have been the filly going to the lead and the big colt trying to catch her.
· 162 days ago ·
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ChrisRueb
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this list gives me chills even thinking about those RACES!!! awesome stuff..
· 161 days ago ·
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jdas1
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Dubai Millennium Montjeu was agreed to when the former was injured #MatchRace
· 161 days ago ·
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silverruffian
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My dream race would have been Ruffian versus Secretariat. Yeah, I know, he was retired by the time Ruffian came along, but that's the stuff dreams are made of. As for Rachel Alexandra versus Zenyatta, I believe three year old Rachel would have run away from Zen in the stretch. She was a monster then. Why Zenyatta's handlers didn't enter her in the Woodward still puzzles me. That would have answered all questions. Four year old Rachel versus Zenyatta? I believe Zenyatta would have won easily. RA had lost her form by then.
· 161 days ago ·
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jdas1
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Dubai Millennium Montjeu was agreed to when the former was injured #MatchRace
· 161 days ago ·
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PattieMulderig
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What about Big Brown vs. Curlin? That would have been an interesting race, for sure!
· 161 days ago ·
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northport
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i would have died for a montjeu/dubai millennium match race
· 161 days ago ·
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ILuvTurfRacing
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If not for his tragic injury in the 06' Preakness, I think a Barbaro vs. Bernardi match-up could've been very intriging. Both horses that were at the top of their game when Barbaro met with his untimely fate. I also wish Rachel Alexandra had either shown up at Santa Anita for that 09' BC Classic, or had shown up for the potential $5 million dollar race that never was at Oaklawn in the 2010 Apple Blossom. I think everyone wanted to settle which the argument of which of those 2 mares was the best? One head to head that didn't make the list that I would argue could've an interesting race was Frankel vs. Camelot. I always thought the St. Leger trip was iffy at best for Camelot. I wouldn't at all have minded seeing Aidan O'Brien chart a similar course with him that John Oxx did with Sea The Stars in 2009. Oxx had no hesitation or quams about skipping the English St. Leger with Sea The Stars, and instead dropped him back in trip twice to 10f after he'd won the Epsom Derby at 12f. If it had been Camelot representing Ballydoyle in this year's Juddmonte International Stakes at York instead of St.Nicholas Abbey, I think it would've made for a much more exciting race.
· 161 days ago ·
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jay s.
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Heck...although I wasn't thinking it at the time, looking back I believe Shackleford and Animal Kingdom would've run first and second in the 2012 classic. You can pick the order of finsh between them.
· 161 days ago ·
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cocoa2
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Shack maybe AK never
· 161 days ago ·
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jay s.
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cocoa, cocoa, cocoa. Before the Breeder Cup Mile I had about the same impression of AK as you. Apparently, you must've watched the Cocoa's Bizarro World Breeders Cup Mile where AK must've finished last or eased, or something. You better recognize before AK makes you look like a spode in 2013. · 2 seconds ago
· 161 days ago ·
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cocoa2
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Another idiot, jay s. please name all the horses of the 15 races that closed more than 10 lengths and won on BC days
· 161 days ago ·
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jay s.
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cocoa...be nice, now. You're gonna make yourself look super-stupid, just like you do every other day.
· 161 days ago ·
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jay s.
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Actually, it's not every other day. It's everyday your fingers touch a keyboard. I think you parents must have built your swingset up against a brick wall.
· 161 days ago ·
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rafirox
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Animal Kingdom will not win the 2013 Classic, as you posted on a different thread, Jay S. The reason is he will be retired in Sept 2013 for the Ausi Breeding Season. Cocoa2, yawn. I don't think Jay S is far fetched to say Shack could have used the speed bias, and AK liking the extra distance. I personally think Shack still would have faded, AK I have no idea, maybe 10 would be too long for s short off a layoff. Cocoa being Cocoa, YAWN.
· 161 days ago ·
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cocoa2
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Until you answer my question, "name the horses who closed more than 10 lengths on BC day", I refuse to comment further with you.
· 161 days ago ·
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Mary Z.
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I don't believe the Classic would have been the right race for either Shackleford, given in which races he was thought to excel, nor Animal Kingdom, considering his injuries and layoffs. You'd have to run the race all over again, but I think Shack would fade, but finish 6th or 7th in that field and AK no layoff, injury free could have just as a guess, taken 4th or 5th, given that field and track. jmo.
· 161 days ago ·
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marian.v.horton
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After Ruffian, match races are too terrifying.
· 161 days ago ·
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rafirox
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I agree Mary. I think Fort Larned and MMM would have still came 1-2. I don't think Jay S is stupid for saying that, considering AK's performance in the Mile, and what was going on with the track that day, could have helped Shack, but I dsagree. Shack was well suited in the Mile.
· 161 days ago ·
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rafirox
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Even though I disagree with Jay S, I still think Cocoa's comment was ridiculous.
· 161 days ago ·
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jay s.
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And, my reasoning for Shack would mean that Game On Dude ran exactly the way he did. Had he and Shack made it to the front together wouldn't have been good. I feel differently about AK. He ran like a fresh horse that was incredibly ready.
· 161 days ago ·
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cocoa2
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Cocoa being cocoa? Rafi shut up for once. Shack would've taken care of the speed bias, AK would've been history on a track like that. That is my point. The turf course is not as biased, and while Ron The Greek is one of the top 3 older males he could do nothing as the speed bias saw him close in a frenzy but make up no ground. My comment was ridiculous? Nobody has answered my question; of the 15 races how many were won by closers from more than 10 lengths back? Calidiscopo is the only one that comes straight to mine, and that was because the field peeled away at first showing of a real router
· 161 days ago ·
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rafirox
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Hey that's my catch phrase, LOL.
· 161 days ago ·
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cocoa2
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Do I need to create a cliche, stupid catch phrase for you?
· 161 days ago ·
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21simmonsro
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Secretariat versus Dahlia. They both ran on the grass in North America around the same time, but not against each other.
· 160 days ago ·
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21simmonsro
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Tom Fool and Native Dancer once worked out together at Saratoga. I've seen a photo but know nothing else.
· 160 days ago ·
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travel_vic
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Secretariat would have just run off from a commanding front position
· 160 days ago ·
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DANCERS1FAN
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Great list! Terrible shame about Zenyatta and Rachel-they were awesome! Glad to see my all time favorite Native Dancer still holding at number 2 on the list - nearly 60 years later. I know he would have won - he was amazing!
· 159 days ago ·
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21simmonsro
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Secretariat vs Allez France. Allez France was even better than Dahlia, easily beating her in all 5 meetings, even though Dahlia decisively beat the same foes Secretariat did.
· 158 days ago ·
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kaitlinefree1
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Frankel vs Wise Dan.? hmm...i'd choose Frankel.
· 158 days ago ·
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travel_vic
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to stay within the realm of reality, you have to pit horses of the same decade and country to make any discussion even close to being logical.
· 158 days ago ·
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travel_vic
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the way Sec crushed foes, and even the best ones of that year, he would have been ard to catch on either grass of dirt.
· 158 days ago ·
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Mary Z.
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Rachel Alexandra vs Quality Road. Was that one already mentioned?
· 158 days ago ·
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rafirox
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Quality Road VS Rachel Alexandra at nine furlongs would have been an awesome race.
· 158 days ago ·
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travel_vic
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bye bye Rachel in that contest
· 158 days ago ·
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ariana.peters.507
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kaitlinefree1 I would add animal kingdom to Frankel and Wise dan. Animal kingdom not coming off of a long layoff and with a less biased track is easily as good as wise dan in my opinion. Frankel would probably still win though. He was just a monster
· 156 days ago ·
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MarcelloMarocco
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Let's not forget that Northern Dancer won the Queen's Plate also. 3 Classics for the lil guy :) One race left off the list would be a rematch of Holy Bull and Cigar. Holy Bull wire to wire :)
· 150 days ago ·
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travel_vic
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I lke the Plate, the biggest and most famous sporting event in the country..however, it was limited to Ontario breds until the 50's , limited to MAIDEN three year olds until almost the middle of the century, and is a restricted stakes, so it hardly compares to what N.D. before he came home.
· 150 days ago ·
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timgsmith10
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Bigger than the Stanley Cup.... I dont think so.
· 150 days ago ·
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travel_vic
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Much OLDER than the cup. never missed a year since it started, .....doesn't look like there will be a Stanley Cup this year but I will wager there will be a Queen's Plate
· 150 days ago ·
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MarcelloMarocco
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No Argument here Travel_Vic, but a Classic is a classic ;) what's Hockey??..lol.
· 150 days ago ·
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timgsmith10
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The stanley Cup and Grey cup have a bigger significance to canadians... Lord stanley is #1 here by a landslide
· 150 days ago ·
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jmcleav
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I believe you are right Rachel was never the same after the Woodward, I believe the same happened to Blind Luck after the Delaware Handicap.
· 127 days ago ·
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Floridaf
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To answer Cocoa's question: Of the 15 BC races, 4 winners were on the lead, 2 winners were speedy types but not on the lead (within a length at 1/2 mile call), 6 winners took up stalking positions (within 4 lengths at 1/2 mile call), and 3 closed from off the pace (Flotilla was 4 1/2 lengths back, Calidoscopio was 14 lengths back at the 1 mile call in the marathon, and Mizdirection was 8 lengths back).
· 127 days ago ·
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Floridaf
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jmcleav, I agree with you about Blind Luck. She left everything she had on the track after her scintillating DelCap performance.
· 127 days ago ·
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Frankel
this is how it should go 1.secretariat 2.man 'o war 3.citation 4.frankel
Posted by
frankelsawesome
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140 days ago ·
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Mary Z.
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Out of only 4, or all Thoroughbred race horses?
· 140 days ago ·
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jay s.
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Seattle Slew, Affirmed, Alysheba, John Henry, Zenyatta, Swale, Sunday Silence,...
· 140 days ago ·
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jay s.
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In no particular order, and after Citation, IMO, of course. Although Frankel is tremendous and one of the greats of great
· 140 days ago ·
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rafirox
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IMO, It is very difficult to compare a horse like Frankel to a horse like Red. Frankel was incedible. I confess, I had my doubts on his ability to stretch out, and he proved me wrong. Cecil obviously is a mastermind. He did everything asked of him. He beat the best turf milers OVER and OVER again, including Excelebration. Then, he stretched out and beat Nathaniel, St. Nicholas Abbey, Cirrus de Aigles, etc. Great horse, indeed. No idea where I would rank him with the great though. I think he is top 10 euro though, for sure.
· 140 days ago ·
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Frankel
ridiculous ploy to make this one the best of all time. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/horseracing/9759419/Frankel-may-end-up-as-the-b\ est-of-all-time-as-the-worlds-handicappers-rewrite-history.html
Posted by
travel_vic
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143 days ago ·
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Remembering The Legend of Frankel
Although Frankel has left the racing world behind him and settled into his new life at stud, he won't be forgotten anytime soon.
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Posted
152 days ago ·
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gpspickers
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The "Bid" would have jerked his head, clear off...
· 150 days ago ·
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footlick
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I didn;t know the Bid was such a powerhouse on the turf. I must have missed that part of his career.
· 150 days ago ·
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CherieLegeza
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Wise Dan
· 150 days ago ·
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footlick
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Wise Dan couldn't even beat Excelebration easier than Franke did and Wise Dan had home court advantage. But, I'm sure both of you are right and I am wrong.
· 150 days ago ·
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buckpasser
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I like Wise Dan, but are all of you serious that he would have beaten Frankel. Frankel beat soe very good if not great horses with ease.
· 150 days ago ·
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Dressage3295
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I agree with buckpasser. It would have taken a true champion to beat the mighty Frankel
· 150 days ago ·
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Dressage3295
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By true champion, I mean perhaps one of the greatest racehorses that ever lived
· 150 days ago ·
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timgsmith10
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If only Frankel would have entered and won the BCM.. Then there would be no doubt.. but he never which in turn creates doubt.. Amazing horse no doubt but ....
· 150 days ago ·
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casey.laughter
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great article averie!
· 150 days ago ·
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buckpasser
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Instead of just expecting Frankel or any other to Come here, how about our supposed great horses traveling to Europe to compete. We rarely do anymore.
· 150 days ago ·
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cocoa2
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Because we could get by at Nad Al Sheba
· 150 days ago ·
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MarcelloMarocco
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Timgsmith- I didn't see Wise Dan, or any other miler show up for Champions day and the QEII, or the Queen anne, or the Sussex......food for though before you continue to throw mud at the Legend. Great Article, and that surely was a great moment for Frankel to beat a champion horse like CDA over his prefered ground.
· 150 days ago ·
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MarcelloMarocco
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Let's see Barry Irwin put his money where his mouth is(he normaly does) and bring AK to Ascot for the Prince of Wales, and The connections of Wise Dan come over for the Queen anne during Ascot week.
· 150 days ago ·
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timgsmith10
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No mud is being thrown..I saw frankel he was amazing...Just to remove all doubt he could have travelled and beaten the best instead of leaving doubt... Look at Cigar..Was there any doubt he was the greatest racehorse in the world during his time? NO because he took his talents global and kicked some A@#
· 150 days ago ·
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footlick
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Shipping to Dubai for a dirt race against turf horses proved he was the greatest racehorse in the world? The greatest dirt horse, sure. But he didn't run against any Euros on their preferred surface. But, look how he kicked the asses of those turf horses on dirt. Wow.
· 150 days ago ·
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timgsmith10
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The point is he went and won.. How about curlin?
· 150 days ago ·
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footlick
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He shipped and won a race against turf horses and other American horses he had already beaten. Same with Curlin. Is that impressive? I guess to you it is. To me it was expected that an American horse would win. Dirt is the key. But, it isn't dirt anymore. I wonder if Cigar or Curlin would have shipped if it wasn't on dirt?
· 149 days ago ·
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LAZMANNICK
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We all know that Cigar was terrible on turf (1 for 11) and was exceptional on dirt. Both Cigar and Frankel would never run against each other while both were on their preferred of best surface. However, I wonder if we had a (hypothetical-theoretical race), if Cigar’s ability on dirt would match or exceed Frankel’s ability on turf, and vice versa. Sounds confusing but you know what I mean.
· 149 days ago ·
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footlick
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What commonality would you use in order to effectively and fairly compare an American dirt horse to a European turf horse? How do you decide who showed the most ability? Time? Winning margins? How many times they were eased up at the finish? Losses? There is nothing that can be fairly compared. You cannot compare times. You cannot compare margins of victory. The dynamics of European racing and American racing are not similar. Everything would be subjective and would come down to who your favorite was. Just another argument in the wings. But that was not my point at all. American dirt horses shipping to Dubai for big money running against European turf horses in a dirt race shows nothing but that they knew it would be easy pickings, imho. I know many people might think that there was a challenge somewhere in that, but the race was taylor made for American horses to win. Sheikh Mohammed needed American participation to get the event off the ground, and he courted that. Now, Japanese, European, Hong Kong, Australian and South African participation is strong. Hence, also imho, the change to Tapeta. Just look at the American reaction when 2 European milers ran 1-2 in our BCC when it was on Pro-Ride. Anyway, it really doesn't matter in the end. Everyone will believe what they want. I've rambled on for too long about this. Have a good Holiday, Laz and everyone else.
· 149 days ago ·
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LAZMANNICK
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Hey Footlick and everyone else, all the best during the Christmas/Holiday season and in the New Year. In answer to your question, Footlick, without Frankel and Cigar meeting on a surface that would be favored by both, there is no conclusive way of comparing the two, only conjecture. That’s why I said in a hypothetical situation and that’s why we cannot definitively say one way or the other which one was best. One commonality is their winning streaks. IMO horses that have lengthily winning streaks win those races not necessarily because they are the fastest, but primarily because of class. They might win some races by large margins and others by a nose, but the truth is they always win and often by exerting just enough energy to get to the line first. Both horses are deep in class. In support of the American horses, it always seems to be about turf. Let all those horses from whatever country they are racing in come over to America and run on dirt. I don’t think they would be nearly as successful. It is obviously the same when American horses ship overseas and race or turf. However, IMHO if all American bred horses raced exclusively on turf we would be able to compete with the best from any nation. In the past there have been many successful N/A breds that have campaigned to the highest level on turf, horses like Dancing Brave, Mill Reef, Alleged, Nijinsky, Never Say Die, Youth, Allez France, Dahlia, Royal Anthem, El Gran Senor, Sir Ivor, Trempolino, The Minstrel, etc.
· 149 days ago ·
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icyhotboo
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Having only gained an interest in turf this past year I don't have enough depth to determine Frankel's place among the best turf horses ever. I have a question which I don't have an answer for myself and was hoping for some opinions. Where do those of you who do have this depth place Frankel? One more if it's not to much. Having already stated my lack of depth I still have an opinion and question. How would Gio Ponti and Twice Over in their prime compare to the best horses faced by Frankel.I realize as time passes it gets harder but to the best your ability. Please just turf horses as comparing turf to dirt is impossible as we all know. I look forward to replies, thanks. Have a Merry Christmas and a nice holiday season everyone.
· 149 days ago ·
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footlick
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Laz- because most of the world races on turf, dirt horses are a minority. The world races on turf. The US races on dirt. As you jsut said Cigar was not good on turf, why would making all horses come here and race us on dirt be fair or make sense. All you can say for sure is that there are great dirt horses and great turf horses. In the past, when we were importing thoroughbreds all our bloodlines were European and those horses adapted to dirt. Would they have been better on turf? We will never know. I certainly do feel that there are horses who can run on both equally well and those who cannot. Also remember that this N/A breeds for the most part were sired by horses who made their name in Europe, had bloodlines that Europeans favored or were bred by breeders who knew they had horses who would excel in Europe. It would be nice to think that those horses would have been equally good on dirt, but I doubt it. It would be be nice to think that Ribot would have been equally as great on dirt as he sired many, many dirt horses. But we will never know. I personally believe he would have been a match for any horse on any surface. To me, he would be the Euro to give Secretariat all he could have handled. But, it is only conjecture. Also, just as we found ways to make the European bloodlines work on dirt, the Euros found ways to make American bloodlines work on turf. If I remember correctly, they were the first to prove that a Mr Prospector could route an could run on turf. I don't discount the American thoroughbred on turf, but it is always the same with the American fan, "Come over here and prove it".
· 149 days ago ·
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cocoa2
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I'm not foolish enough to think the world has better horses than Canada and the United States (by saying america you include Argentina and Brazil). I agree, Ribot is my #2. Can we agree, however, that America was better than England several times in the last century?
· 149 days ago ·
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footlick
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When is the last time we sent a high class horse over to Europe to run? There are enough races with big purses to warrant a trip. But it never happens. We just always demand they come here. We also demand they run on dirt. it is always what we want that is supposed to be done. But, dirt racing is a minority in the world. You think N/A horses get shortchanged. It is because they run on dirt primarily. When we start to send our turf horses to the rest of the world and prove that our horses can compete on the World level without meds, then maybe more respect will come. But as long as we stay in our medicated backyard and continue to tell the world they have to come here to race, we will get wht we get. I know this will not be a popular view, but I think it is the view of the world. Medications and dirt have made the US thoroughbred's reputation. In Europe, every Euro that comes to the US and wins on Lasix is called "juiced up". A win without meds is considered much more legitimate. Many Euros who win here with meds cannot win back in Europe. It all reflects on our thoroughbred. They race American bred thoroughbreds, and race them without meds. They do not understand the widespread use of meds when they don't need to use them on raceday. Anyway, this is just more rambling by me and it is Christmas and we all have better things to do! Merry Christmas, Laz
· 149 days ago ·
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footlick
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icy- I will answer you briefly for the moment. IMHO, Frankel would maybe be in the top 10, at 9th or 10th, or even the top 20. I think he was a brilliant animal. His consistency to put up high Timeform ratings made him unique. A Timeform rating, as well as a Racing Post rating is for pone race, not a career. Frankel strung together an amazing amount of high Timeform ratings. He was ultra consistent andwon his races with ease. There are others who I feel were just better even though they do not have the ratings. That is why this is such a subjective topic. Have a great Holiday, icy!
· 149 days ago ·
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footlick
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should be one race, not pone-lol.
· 149 days ago ·
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cocoa2
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Colin comes to mine first, lol, but I believe it was Njinsky.
· 149 days ago ·
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Buckpasser
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Tom Rolfe was a nice horse. He was 6th in Seabird's Arc. One of the best performances of an American horse. carry Back was tenth, but beaten only 5 lengths. For many years top owners in America had two stables going: one in Europe and one in America. In this context, I think of the Whitneys, the Mellons, the Phipps etc. few American owners do this anymore. The Ramsey's are ones that come to mind. Of course, you Have George Strawbridge who left American racing because of the drug issues to race exclusively in Europe.
· 149 days ago ·
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footlick
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cocoa2- If you are talking about turf horses, the law of averages would make it highly probably that we had. But overall, and I am talking about turf horses, they have had a better product. We have used their bloodlines, they have used ours. If you count Japan, the foreign horse has more stamina and runs unmedicated. Our horses have less stamina and runs medicated. If they can take our bloodlines and breed horses with stamina who do not need to run on meds, then so could we. They have adapted our bloodlines to their needs. I would be confident that the World has better turf horses than we do on the whole. But, as I said, as long as we only play in our own back yard where our horses can run on tight tracks and stay medicated and make the World come here, it is not reciprocal. We have become much less of a force in Dubai, and we make less and less trips to Japan. We have become so insular, that I'm not sure, other than the BC, that we can compete on the World Stage anywhere but here. Hopefully that will change, but as long as our horses are bred for speed instead of stamina and we have permissive medication rules, we will only be a big fish here.
· 149 days ago ·
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footlick
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Have a good Holiday season cocoa2.
· 149 days ago ·
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cocoa2
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Thank you, footlick, you too. Of course I count Japan and also Australia as well as South Africa. What we need is those big operations, Calumet, Claiborne, the stations that care where the horses go. I wish there was a way to make the yearling sales less prominent. If it didn't completely annihilate jobs and the racing industry it would be a good idea. Or starting point, rather. Now as ever we need one center racing association. It should dictate bans and abuses, and all tracks in America must be a member. Almost like a racing congress. How, then, do we keep it form being corrupt? We don't need another NYRA. Opinions on a center racing association that dictates all connected to racing Thoroughbreds?
· 149 days ago ·
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footlick
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Thanks cocoa2. You are right that there does need to be a single governing body that looks out for and unifies racing. And, we need either established private breeding operations or stud farms who are primarily breeding to race. At the moment the breeding is where it is because of the demand for horses who are going to make a quick return on people's investments. What is needed, imo, are people who want to race their horses and do not look at them as just an investment to make money and then sell. That is why the older families were so important and some of the legendary stud farms were so important because they were breeding to race and then to stand the horse and breed to that sire. The breed was important to them, not just the investment and return. Once we get back to that way of thinking, maybe we will start breeding horses with more stamina and well-rounded pedigrees. There is no simple answer unfortunately. Money talks and the people investing in the thoroughbred want a quick return and then capitalize on it. As far as corruption, it will always be here. As long as there is power and money there will be corruption. We hve to make sure tht the people on the governing body care about racing and the thoroughbred. But, we will never get rid of corruption. It is here to stay.
· 149 days ago ·
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footlick
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Have family obligations now. I'll be back tonight. Have a great day to all!!
· 149 days ago ·
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icyhotboo
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Thanks footlick, I must leave for family day #2, I do enjoy getting together though.
· 149 days ago ·
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mkstorm
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Can't knock a horse who won 10 Group 1 races in just 14 career starts. Anyone doubting his competition should direct their criticism at the connections of those other contenders who didn't show up to race against him.
· 149 days ago ·
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icyhotboo
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All group1 or grade1 aren't equal. For instance many a grade1 that Game On Dude ran in and won on the west coast were grade3s in Nebraska. As for not showing up, after his weakness was exposed they could find both a rabbit and a closer of championship caliber to test him as they did Dr. Fager.
· 145 days ago ·
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icyhotboo
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^should read "couldn't^
· 145 days ago ·
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Frankel
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/horseracing/9759419/Frankel-may-end-up-as-the-best-of-all-time-as-the-worlds-handicappers-rewrite-history.html
Posted by
icyhotboo
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145 days ago ·
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Bullet Train to Wintergreen Stallion Station
Bullet Train, a Group-winning, three-quarter brother to the sensational and undefeated Frankel, will enter stud in 2013 at Wintergreen Stallion Station in Midway, Kentucky for a fee of $7,500 it was announced today.
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Source: horseracingnation.com
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167 days ago ·
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A Letter to the "Vox Populi" Committee
The social media world exploded after the "Vox Populi" Award finalists were released. Though the five finalists chosen are all stellar athletes, at least three of the five did not speak to the people in the same way as those that were not on final ballot.
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169 days ago ·
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AndyScoggin
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Completely agree!
· 169 days ago ·
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yukichan
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Ditto!
· 169 days ago ·
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BrianZipse
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Well said, Ashley!
· 169 days ago ·
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krlangston19651
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Oh my...you were nuch nicer than I was. My letter to the committee started out like this - I am not really sure what planet you live on, but the planet that I live on would have put forth a better nomination list than the one presented on secretariat.com. I cannot believe that Miss Penny would be happy with this list at all.
· 169 days ago ·
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Floridaf
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I do hope that our collective voices are heard by the committee. I cannot even imagine how many emails that must have received in the last 24 hours or so.
· 169 days ago ·
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AndyScoggin
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Paynter and Shack have been added to the VOX POPULI list!
· 169 days ago ·
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jay s.
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Ashley, no one on the planet could've articulated those sentiments any better. Well said young lady, and thank you.
· 169 days ago ·
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sharon234
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Excellent article, Ashley!
· 169 days ago ·
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missedgehead
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Great job
· 169 days ago ·
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marylandgq
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Please hold your laughter, but what about HANSEN... remember him?! For the first 5 months in 2012 no other horse got more print, tweets, lip-service and facebook comments than The Great White Hope. The 3-ring circus that surrounded him certainly brought attention to the sport. EVERY horse racing fan either loved him or hated (i.e. didn't believe he could win the Derby) him. I happened to have fit in the latter. Bottom line, this award follows the Golden Rule. That is, "He (in this case she, Mrs. Chenery) who has the gold rules".
· 169 days ago ·
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buckpasser
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I agree Hansen should have been in the mix for the award. Since Penny Chenery started the award, obviously she can make the rules for its implementation. Give her credit, she listened to the fans and added Shack and Paynter. Probably next year you will see a more open fan participation in the nominating procedures for the slate.
· 169 days ago ·
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travel_vic
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the ridiculousness of the owner was a big drawback. That clown needs to be at a side show of a traveling circus and not Keemeland or Churchill Downs. He is right up there with Rick's Natural Star's trainer.
· 169 days ago ·
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goblin
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Hansen could still be in the mix. (And I'm not laughing about his inclusion.) The list was expanded to include Shack and Paynter, but also added was a "write-in" box. I didn't understand Dr. Hansen's promotional tactics for his horse, but he did care about and truly love him, I believe. The shameful, dangerous trick perpetrated upon Rick's Natural Star by his owner/trainer was far more egregious in my opinion.
· 169 days ago ·
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jay s.
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I've got to admit, I'm a little surprised at the HRN poll results thus far showing I'll Have Another getting more votes than Paynter and Shackleford, especially with all the comments about them. Really, no one on here is talking-up I'll Have Another, although he may be justified. Either someone is able to vote numerous times, or Mrs. Penny knew what she was talking about.
· 169 days ago ·
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illhaveanothertriplecrown
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It should be I'll have Another. He won the most popular and exciting race in the derby and did it in an incredible fashion. He then had another great battle with Bodemeister in the Preakness which left him primed to win the triple crown. Unfortunately injury struck on the final day before he could. That span of roughly 5 weeks was the most exciting time all for racing.
· 169 days ago ·
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jay s.
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No argument with your reasoning illhaveanothertriplecrown. I was a HUGE Bodemeister fan (Arkansas Derby winner), but was pulling hard for I'll Have Another to win the Crown. But, I think his following was more of a result of what he positioned himself to accomplish, and less of "The People's Horse" like Paynter and Shack. Just my two cents worth. I really liked I'll HAve Another's heart and grit.
· 169 days ago ·
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goblin
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It's virtually impossible to know how this HRN poll may correlate with the actual Vox Populi vote. I, personally, voted for IHA in the Vox Populi poll early yesterday based on the horses originally listed. However, I e-mailed the secretariat site about their omissions of Paynter and Shack. Today, with the new voting in place, I changed my vote to Paynter. IHA will undoubtedly be the Eclipse 3y/o champion.
· 169 days ago ·
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Floridaf
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Hansen is sure to garner quite a few votes via the write-in option. He's one of the popular horses that, like Royal Delta, etc., have legions of fans but don't necessarily have that extra spark that people relate to. That's just my opinion on Hansen. As it stands, I think Paynter will probably get the "Vox Populi" award. His story was truly inspirational.
· 169 days ago ·
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buckpasser
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It was a hard decision between Shack and Paynter. As much as I like Shack, I voted for Paynter. I followed all of illness and was hoping he would recover. As Floridaf put it his "story was truly inspirational." Indeed it was
· 169 days ago ·
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butchcassidy8504
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Well Said Ashley.
· 168 days ago ·
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mjc066
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The moment I saw Shack run at Gulfstream, I fell in love with him. I am not the only fan that loves the Big Shack. BUT, the story of Paynter is one that has touched my heart and so many others. He has been in our minds and in our prayers of so many for months, his is an unusual story of courage, strength and faith. It is also a phenomenal showing from the Zayat family to keep his fans up to the moment on Paynters condition and thanking Pyanter's fans for our prayers. I still pray every day for Paynter's recovery as do all the 'prayer warriors for Paynter'.
· 168 days ago ·
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travel_vic
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Some horses have an aura that others don't Ack Ack had it as did Slew. Right up close they gleamed physical competence to the hilt.
· 168 days ago ·
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dsself45
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Well said Ashley!!!
· 168 days ago ·
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Frankel - Pedigree
[Edit]
Galileo
Sadler's Wells
Northern Dancer
Fairy Bridge
Urban Sea
Miswaki
Allegretta
Kind
Danehill
Danzig
Razyana
Rainbow Lake
Rainbow Quest
Rockfest
Frankel - Race Results & Past Performances
[Add Race Result]
[Add Horse]
Race Video
Date
Fin
Jockey
Tr
#
Dist.
Sf.
Race
$
Cnd
1st
2nd
3rd
Time
10/20/12
1st
T Queally
Asc
5
1 1/4 m
T
Champion Stakes-G1
0
3+ M
Frankel
Cirrus Des Aigles
Nathaniel
2:10.22
08/22/12
1st
T Queally
Yor
4
1 5/16 m
T
Juddmonte International-G1
0
3+ M
Frankel
Farhh
St Nicholas Abbey
2:06.59
08/01/12
1st
T Queally
Goo
3
1 mile
T
Sussex Stakes-G1
0
3+ M
Frankel
Farhh
Gabrial
1:37.56
06/19/12
1st
T Queally
Asc
1
1 mile
T
Queen Anne Stakes-G1
0
4+ M
Frankel
Excelebration
Side Glance
1:37.85
05/19/12
1st
T Queally
Nby
5
1 mile
T
Lockinge Stakes-G1
0
4+ M
Frankel
Excelebration
Dubawi Gold
1:38.14
10/15/11
1st
T Queally
Asc
1
1 mile
T
Queen Elizabeth II Stakes-G1
0
3+ M
Frankel
Excelebration
Immortal Verse
1:39.45
07/27/11
1st
T Queally
Goo
3
1 mile
T
Sussex Stakes-G1
0
3+ M
Frankel
Canford Cliffs
Rio De La Plata
1:37.47
06/14/11
1st
T Queally
Asc
2
1 mile
T
St. James's Palace Stakes-G1
0
3 M
Frankel
Zoffany
Excelebration
1:39.24
04/30/11
1st
T Queally
New
3
1 mile
T
English 2000 Guineas -G1
0
3 M
Frankel
Dubawi Gold
Native Khan
1:37.30
04/16/11
1st
T Queally
Nby
4
7 f
T
Greenham Stakes-G3
0
3 M
Frankel
Excelebration
Shropshire
1:24.60
10/16/10
1st
T Queally
New
2
7 f
T
Dewhurst Stakes-G1
0
2 M
Frankel
Roderic O'Connor
Glor Na Mara
1:25.73
09/25/10
1st
T Queally
Asc
3
1 mile
T
Royal Lodge Stakes-G2
0
2 M
Frankel
Elegance Klammer
Treasure Beach
1:41.73
09/10/10
1st
T Queally
Don
6
7 f
T
Conditions Stakes
0
2 M
Frankel
Rainbow Springs
Diamond Geezah
1:24.83
08/13/10
1st
T Queally
NewJ
3
1 mile
T
Maiden Stakes
0
2 M
Frankel
Nathaniel
Genius Beast
1:43.69
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