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Overanalyze, breezing for Belmont Stakes 2013, went 4f in :47.50 (3/34) at Belmont (dirt training) on 5-19.Posted 19 hours ago
2013 Belmont Stakes hopeful Palace Malice breezed 4f in :47.49 (2/34) at Belmont Park (dirt training) on 5-19. Posted 19 hours ago
Coffee Clique romps in the Selene Stakes!Posted 20 hours ago
Royal Delta breezed 4f in :52.03 (15/23) at Belmont Park on 5-19. Posted 1 day ago
Oxbow and Gary Stevens wire the Preakness!Posted 1 day ago
Skyring goes all the way in the Dixie! Posted 1 day ago
Sage Valley rolls in the Maryland Sprint Handicap!Posted 1 day ago
Pianist goes all the way in the Gallorette! Posted 1 day ago
Summer Applause scores in the Allaire Dupont Distaff!Posted 1 day ago
Zee Bros rolls home in the Chick Lang! Posted 1 day ago

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What the Horse Racing Nation is saying about Creative...

East Coast Bias? Really, Ron Ellis?

The East Coast Bias argument is getting old and outdated. Especially when recent years disprove its existence in today's world of racing. Read More

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AndyScoggin · In the end you have to prove it on the race track. This year and next the BC is on the West Coast. Home field advantage or is that a West Coast bias? · 236 days ago ·

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dani.pugh · I wouldn't say a bias. Santa Anita has much better weather that time of year than most eastern tracks. it seems that Santa Anita and Churchill downs will share it from now on. · 236 days ago ·

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Floridaf · Right now, Include Me Out has the best credentials of any of those fillies and mares you mentioned. For me as well as many others, she sits atop the Older Female division. Definitely no East Coast bias there. · 236 days ago ·

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stevebiscuit · Just because recently turf writers have had no choice but to acknowledge the greatness of the California contingent doesn't mean that historically they haven't been biased towards East Coast horses. "2009, Lookin at Lucky and Zenyatta brought home Eclipse awards. That is not a bias". No, that's not a bias, but who else would they have voted for? In their respective divisions, those were clear standouts. "Right there you have a Horse of the Year and three champions, surrounded by two multiple grade one winners. No filly or mare in the West has a resume that can even come close to that". You're right, no single filly or mare out west has a resume better than all the mares you listed combined. But that's not a fair comparison. When you compare individual resumes, Include Me Out stands out in this group. This year, Include Me Out has 4 wins this year against older females with two of them being grade 1s, the fillies you listed don't near the same resume for the year. Royal Delta has yet to win a grade 1 this year, It's Tricky specializes in one-turn races, Questing has only beaten 3 year olds, My Miss Aurelia only beat Questing after being given 7lbs, and Awesome Feather has two wins this year in non-graded stakes(don't get me wrong, I believe Awesome Feather could very well be the best filly in training, but her resume simply doesn't stack up). So, given her superior resume, how can Include Me Out be ranked behind any of these fillies for any reason except some sort of bias? She appears to be the clear cut division leader. And while we're at it, how can Game On Dude, the Hollywood Gold Cup winner, be ranked behind Wise Dan, whose claim to fame this year is winning a mile turf race in Canada. Heck, how is Wise Dan ahead of Acclamation, who has two grade 1 wins, with both coming in the U.S.? Why isn't Ron The Greek ahead of Wise Dan? He has 2 grade 1s this year and has actually beaten Wise Dan. My point is that it's clear that NTRA polls don't often make sense, which is why Ron Ellis may have a valid point here. · 236 days ago ·

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Floridaf · Very well stated, Steve. · 236 days ago ·

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dani.pugh · Steve the same can be said on many accounts for the east. there its no bias. for example last year, the sprint was between Caleb and amazombie. the later was chosen. Florida, questing like include me out has two grade one wins in the tries. royal delta is a champion as are my miss Aurelia and assume feather. its tricky · 236 days ago ·

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travel_vic · It has been there in varying degrees as long as I have followed racing. Just review the horses of the year and where they were based, simple. · 236 days ago ·

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dani.pugh · sorry, its tricky had won the 9 furlong ccao, a two turn race. royal delta is a champion. questing is a two time grade one winner like ime. mma and af are still unbeaten and champions, the former is also a grade one winner this year as well. their resumes are easily better. · 236 days ago ·

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Floridaf · True, but unlike Questing, all of Include Me Out's starts this year have been in either G1 or G2 races. If not for Love TheWay YouAre's fantastic Vanity performance, Include Me Out would be undefeated this year. As Steve already stated, Include Me Out has done so much more THIS year than any of the other top contenders in the division. You know I adore Feather and the other leading ladies, but right now they just don't quite stack up when talking about THIS year. · 236 days ago ·

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dani.pugh · Florida most of her races were on turf a surface she does not race her best at. on dirt four of her five starts were grade ones. this year the of four were grade ones. one against an unbeaten champion.when was the last time imo ran in the straight grade ones or ran against a champion? never is the answer. · 235 days ago ·

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stevebiscuit · The fact that Caleb's Posse was even considered for last year's sprint championship proves my point. That should've been a unanimous decision. The one actual grade 1 sprint CP won in 2011 was the King's Bishop, which is restricted to 3 year olds. His other grade 1 win came in the Breeders Cup Dirt Mile...not a sprint. Amazombie won two real grade 1 sprints against fields of the fastest sprinters in the world. And I didn't say It's Tricky couldn't win around two turns, she obviously can, but she has a knack for one-turn races. I'm not convinced she can take on the best going two turns. · 235 days ago ·

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dani.pugh · Steve, that you think that proves your bias. Nobody is willing to call a mile a route, yet it it is not a sprint either, then it should have it's own division. Until then, if it is not accepted as a route then it must be considered a sprint. Caleb was unbeaten sprinting that year, unbeaten, with two grade ones. The fact you cannot acknowledge that fact proves just how biased you actually are towards the west. Caleb had every right to be considered for that award, especially where there is no firm guidelines set for what a mile actually should be considred. You also point to restricted race, now I ask you do you think IHA should be horse of the year? His grade ones came in restricted races, yet he is still considred Horse of the Year to this point, by many. And no you didn't say that but you said she only specializes in one turn races, even though she is a grade one winner going two turns. · 235 days ago ·

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travel_vic · Yet another "expert" who goes back all of about 4 or 5 years to discount over 40 to 50 years of a trend. AMAZINGLY SHALLOW · 235 days ago ·

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dani.pugh · Travel, I said recenty years have shown it is not as prevelant. You want others? Point Given, Azeri and Tiznow. All with in last decade, all western based. All Horse of the Year and funny thing is that was three years in a row. · 235 days ago ·

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shadowno · First, edcucate yourself to what a RESTRICTED race is noob, the info is availible at Jockeyclub.com. Resticted races in North America are those which are restricted to certain runners defined within the conditions of the race. These conditions tend to exculde runners of greater quality for consideration other than sex or age. These races recieved the designator R prior to 1985. Beginning January 1, 2002 the following type of restricted races are no longer awarded Black Type status:(1) stakes restricted to maidens, (2) stakes that limit eligibility to horses that have started for a claiming price (3)stakes for horses entered to be claimed (4) stakes that carry an optional claiming condition. Beginning January 1, 2003 the only restrictions allowed for Black Type status are those races restricted to state bred runners, non=winners of a sweepstakes, sales graduates and stallions progeny. Beginning January 1, 2006 races that contain preference clauses other than the quality of the horse in the race shall be considered restricted races; and as of January 1, 2007 these races will no longer be allowed Black Type. " It also explains Black Type for the uninitiated". When exculded due to age (no 4 YO in the Kentucky Derby) or sex (no colts in the Mother Goose) it is a condition of the race rather than a restriction . · 235 days ago ·

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travel_vic · Just look at the number and the BIAS is built into the voting. WHERE are the majority of big time race courses? The East. Where are the majority of big time races? The East. Where are most the sprots writers and DRF columnists? The EAST. One has to be VERY Impressive coming from the West, and USUALLY HAS TO GO to thier back yard to beat them there if you are from the West coast. Argument is FULL OF HOLES. · 235 days ago ·

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dani.pugh · Shandowno, before name calling me or anyone on this blog, learn respect. I don't know exactly who you were refering to because it could have been me or steve, however, even in disagreement I don't tolerate it. My comment was simply to show steve how hypocritial his comment towards Caleb's Posse winning a "restricted" grade one was, while calling Amazombie's "real" grade one races. If you were refering to him, I again say even in disagreement, I won't tolerate the name calling on my blog. · 235 days ago ·

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travel_vic · Forego, Buckpasser, Count Fleet, War Dmiral, Whirlaway, Armed, Assault, Citation, Capot, Tom Fool, Native Dancer, Nashua, Bold Ruler, Round Table, Sword Dancer, Kelso, Buckpasser, Damascus, Dr. Fager, Arts and Letters, Fort Marcy, Secretartiat, Forego, Slew, Affirmed, Bid, John Henry, Conquistador Cielo, All ALong, Spend A Buck, ALysheba, Criminal Type,,,,,,,How many from the west? about 7 or 8... · 235 days ago ·

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DeadHeat · Travel, that is not up to the sportswriters. There are more tracks in the east, that is not sportswriters fault, people decided to found tracks there and run races. It is not anyones fault there is more racing on the East, there is more tracks. It is not biased, that is the way the country set itself up. It is not like somebody said "ok, all turfwriters/track/horses here and nowhere else." The arguement does not have holes. Any horse must be impressive to win an eclipse unless there is such a lack of depth you might as well have thrown a dart. You act as if it is a conspiracy theory, when it just happens that this is how things developed due to whatever economic factors. Writers go where there are jobs, owners race their horses where they can make the most money and trainers build a stable where they know the owners go, because they give jobs. Your arguement is the one with holes. · 235 days ago ·

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DeadHeat · Travel, again recent history. Not saying there has never been a bias. There is none now except for those who delude themselves. The award(s) goes to the best and who dominated and accomplished the most. Last decade the first three HOTY's were based in Cali, after that can you say the east coast horses didn't run deserving campaigns? The ones most would disagree with would be Curlin and Rachel, even though Curlin ran literally all over the US in 08 and had a historic campaign. RA and Zenyatta will forever be debated. Both made history, one made history during her entire season, the other namely in one large race. It depends on how you look at it. Oddly enough, the beginning of this decade, also crowned a west coast champion. · 235 days ago ·

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stevebiscuit · Dani, I call a mile a route and just because the race is one turn doesn't make it a sprint, unless every Breeders Cup Classic winner at Belmont is actually a sprinter as well. If the Dirt Mile deserves its own division, then so does the Marathon, the Turf Sprint, Juvenile Sprint, Juvenile Turf...etc. Many of these races were created as an opportunity for horses to get their Breeders Cuo win in a race type they specialize in. Horses who are true sprinters will tend to run in the BC Sprint. Horses who can't handle the pace intensity of the Breeders Cup Sprint will hide in the Breeders Cup Dirt Mile. Caleb's Posse was unbeaten sprinting in 2011, but not against America's top sprinters. When comparing their big wins for the year, Amazombie won two open grade 1 sprints, while Caleb's Posse won one restricted grade 1 sprint and one open grade 1 route. In terms of Sprint Championship qualifications, this should've been a clear cut decision. And I don't deny that I harbor some bias towards my home state. But I am not a turf writer and therefore am not professionally obligated to be objective. Anyone who blogs has some level of subjectivity, for "to blog" essentially means "to opine publicly via the internet". In regards to I'll Have Another, I think if the voting were held today he would be Horse Of The Year. I don't believe wins in restricted company should be counted against an Eclipse Award contender, unless in the event of a tie breaker. If, for instance, Game On Dude were to win the Awesome Again Stakes and the Breeders Cup Classic, I would say he deserves Horse Of The Year since each would have won 3 grade 1s, but one horse did so in open company. And once again, I said "It's Tricky specializes in one-turn races". Nowhere did I say "only one-turn races". She can do both, but has been more impressive to me going one-turn as opposed to two. Regardless, It's Tricky's resume, as of yet, hasn't been as impressive as Include Me Out's. · 235 days ago ·

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DeadHeat · My point steve, is that it is not even considered a route by many. You might, I'm not willing to because, to me a mile is not even middle distance, it is a long sprint. If I were to talk track, I would equate it to the 200 meter. The juvenile turf races are in the juvenile divison, even though they do not get any attention. Marathon would easily be considered in the Classic division since by american standards nine furlongs and up is a true male classic division race. Again, those horses are typically not respected. I disagree with your statement about those who cannot handle the pace intensity will hide in the mile. That race has come up as one of the most competitive races in the BC since it has been run. That is like me saying the horses that can't handle speed over a distance of ground hide from the mile in the sprint. Both are competitive race. Also, a little catch, you say Amazombie beat the top sprinters, the real top sprinter he faced last year was The Factor, who in turn ran in the mile, and who also is know as a 7f specialist. The Factor a top sprinter ran in the mile. The only race he did truly beat the best sprinters was the BC. My point here is that mile has to be classified as one or the other, it can't just be left floating. My definition of a route is 8.5f and up, while a mile and under is sprinting. In that case, there needs to be a definition. · 235 days ago ·

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stevebiscuit · The only thing "historic" about Curlin's 2008 campaign was becoming the richest horse in history, which was largely inflated by his win in the Dubai World Cup. He beat nobodies(most notably Wanderin Boy) and lost the Breeders Cup. Zenyatta was 7 for 7 in 2008, with 3 grade 2s and 4 grade 1s(twice beating champion Ginger Punch), including the Breeders Cup Distaff. Curlin's U.S. resume was clearly weaker, with 5 wins in 7 starts, 3 grade 1s(and no Breeders Cup win). If there was no bias in that HOTY voting, then I don't know how else it ended up being so skewed towards Curlin. "The award(s) goes to the best and who dominated and accomplished the most". Perhaps if voters went by this criteria, Zenyatta would've been Horse Of The Year on 2008. My feeling is that they let bias get the better of them. · 235 days ago ·

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LAZMANNICK · I think I'll take a well known trainer's opinion first before anyone else's. · 235 days ago ·

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Mary Z. · Great blog and comments, DH. Keep 'em coming. (!) · 235 days ago ·

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Mike in SB · I like many West Coast fans think there is an East Coast bias. The main difference is that east coast horses are assumed to be superior until proven otherwise and west coast horses must prove they are better, this is why California horses are excepted to ship east to race but Eastern horses don't have to ship west. The problem is if, for example, a horse wins 3 big sprint races in New York and another horse wins the top 3 sprints in California, and maybe a longshot wins the Breeders Cup sprint, then most of the time the New York horse wins the Eclipse. This is the kind of thing that has annoyed West Coast fans for years. · 235 days ago ·

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LAZMANNICK · Mary LMAO. · 235 days ago ·

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Mary Z. · I did make myself laugh with my comments not posted here. I can't stand that one guy--I'll let him guess who, and why did this turn into another Z, Curlin, too early for Eclipse debates thing? · 235 days ago ·

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Floridaf · DH, Include Me Out's last two races were G1s. Three of her 5 races this year were G1, and the other two were G2. Sure she hasn't faced Eclipse champions this year, but that has nothing to do with her and everything to do with where her trainer chose to run her (and where the trainers of the champions chose to run them). I get that Questing didn't like turf and that she is relishing the surface switch, but to me, Include Me Out's record for THIS year looks better than Questing's right now. · 235 days ago ·

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LAZMANNICK · So does that mean you going to empty chair him? · 235 days ago ·

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Mary Z. · Not worth it. · 235 days ago ·

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travel_vic · For YEARS I suffered under the ILLUSAION that Eclipse voting was fair. After frustration was heaped upon disappointment REPEATEDLY, THIS West coaster finally realized what is the truth; THERE IS an EASTY coast bias in BOTH the Eclipse awards in the US and the Sovereign Awards in Canada. PERIOD · 235 days ago ·

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icyhotboo · Laura Pugh, I agree with you. Just plain old common sense spelled out for the folks who would natuarally suffer from an inferiority complex because by their own admission they live in a second rate part of America. Life ain't fair almost all the time. · 231 days ago ·

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icyhotboo · BTW: If you folks don't want the staue of Zenyatta we'll be proud to host it in the East. · 231 days ago ·

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Armada · I'll never let you take it alive! I love that statue and the great mare it represents. ;) · 231 days ago ·

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shadowno · @Danipugh. Please learn simple racing conditions and you will take a giant leap toward the respect you llack. As long as you do not know what constitutes a restricted race how can you expect respect? FloridaF aware, knowlegeable and fully deserving of respect. You....Not so much quite yet. · 230 days ago ·

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Age of Reason · This from the DRF feed: "NY-based NTRA voter P. Moran leads with My Miss Aurelia and Awesome Feather & has NY-raced horses in top 7 slots with [Game on Dude] 10th. E.-Coast bias lives!" · 230 days ago ·

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Mary Z. · What gross comments--some of them. Let the horses do the talking. wth with the respect? Who the h is this anyway? Whatever. · 230 days ago ·

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TimSmith · What is there 2 tracks on the west? 3? Santa,Del,Holly? Think how many are on the east....There are more horses and people naturally like horses they see more... Who really cares anyway · 230 days ago ·

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dani.pugh · shadowno, apparently you don't read. My comment was to show how silly another comment another poster made sounded. Though, it would do you well to learn to the phrase "a rose by any other name is still a rose." If a race says open to only 2 year olds, can any horses older than that age race in it. No. Because it restricted to that age group. They may say condition to try and get voters to see things differently, but on most occasions it doesn't work, unless you are talking Triple Crown races. It might be a condition, but it still restricts who can and can't enter. The voters know that, and most will vote to that. · 230 days ago ·

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travel_vic · There used to be 5 significant tracks in the west: SA, Holly, Del Mar, GGF, BM and, believe it or not Longacres. MANY a very good one prepped late in the season in the many Auguest/Septemeber stakes at LGA. Judge Angelluchi, Simply Majestic, Chinook Pass, Skywalker, etc prepped there. George Royal, turf horse of the year, prepped and started at little Exhibition, now Hastings Park. WITH all of this there is and always has been an Eastern based bias. · 230 days ago ·

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dani.pugh · HRTV and TVG are based in Cali. Often times broadcast media has more of an effect on the masses than print. Both of those channels are clearly biased towards the West, yet you don't hear those in the East complain. · 230 days ago ·

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TimSmith · Woodbine,Belmont,Saratoga,Monmouth,gulfstream ok so how does the west coast compete? · 229 days ago ·

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travel_vic · Monmouth is hardly big time. That East contingent which makes a difference also includes Gulfstream, Keeneland, and in some aspects Arlington as well..left out from your listing. · 229 days ago ·

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dani.pugh · Since when is a track in Canada considered East Coast? It's in another country. Also, Sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but KY is not exactly on the coast, so again, not east coast. Major east Coast tracks are the NY three gulfstream and Monmouth. You have KY that is farther out, farther than that you have Oaklawn, then you have the the main Cali tracks in HP, Del Mar and Santa Anita. · 229 days ago ·

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travel_vic · Wppdbine IS a dominant force in Noth American racing no matter which side of the border it is placed. WAKE UP to that FACT! The dividing line is usually the Mississippi river or geography has changed since I was last in school! · 229 days ago ·

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travel_vic · Monmouth is NOT a mjor track, 2nd level at best. · 229 days ago ·

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dani.pugh · Travel, honestly it doesn't matter, and since it became synthetic most main track horses don't run a lick on any dirt tracks here. That is a fact. US is mainly dirt, and when considering that, it is not a dominant track in the US, not when compared to the best tracks on the East or West. And since you claim Monmouth is not that great, The East has only four major tracks on the Coast, unless you don't count Aqueduct, meaning there would be three, equal to the number in California. Your argument just got a lot weaker with that statement and the attempt to call Woodbine, a track that is synthetic and produces mainly turf horses in a dirt dominated country, and east coast track. You simply cannot change what is dominant in the country and you simply cannot change geography. · 229 days ago ·

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illhaveanothertriplecrown · Technically Churchill is considered an eastern track. · 229 days ago ·

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illhaveanothertriplecrown · and you are all forgetting Suffolk Downs! · 229 days ago ·

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travel_vic · Always love debating the Johnny Come Lately who, does not know how ,uch there REALLY IS TO KNOW, so that Lilliputian knowledge gets sparead out as if it encompasses all there is to know. And the numbers of these are increasing by just letting them have acess to a keyboard. ASHAMED REALLY. · 229 days ago ·

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travel_vic · How do I know how much there is to know? Over the past three years I hve come to call a friend who ran the racing Hall of Fame. HIS breadth of knowlege and perspective is the standard to which we all should be compared. I marvel at that store of experience and information · 229 days ago ·

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CauseForConcern · tv, I think you're that piano teacher that used to rap me across the knuckles with a ruler when I missed the note. · 229 days ago ·

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dani.pugh · Travel you can talk to anyone you want. You'll never be taken seriously if all you do is parrot. Illhaveanother, tell me where on the map KY is? Sure not on the coast now is it. It is not a true easter track, one of the main reason many think it would be a fair host to the BC since both coasts have to travel. Travel, again, your whole argument wasn't even defending your prior arguement, you went way off topic, meaning you have nothing else to defend with. Good day. · 229 days ago ·

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travel_vic · TRADITIONALLY the country is divided by the Mississippi. I can't tell you how many times that dividing line has been HISTORICALLY the pivot to what defines east and west. Always has · 229 days ago ·

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travel_vic · I abhor physical violence but do appreciate accuracty. DISAGREE with me, BUT have a substaniation for that disagreement or otherwise it is fluff. · 229 days ago ·

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travel_vic · I might parrot Norman Shumway or Micheal DeBakey but certainly NOT anyone in htis thread · 229 days ago ·

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illhaveanothertriplecrown · Dani, I didn't say coast. I said its considered an Eastern Track if you are dividing the nation East and West. Kentucky has not been considered "the west" since the mid 19th century. TV is correct in that the Miss River is the dividing point generally speaking. · 229 days ago ·

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travel_vic · Geographicv center of the U.S. is near Lebanon Kansas so anything East of that, well is EAST. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographic_center_of_the_contiguous_United_States · 229 days ago ·

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dani.pugh · It may be the dividing point, but it is not considered eastern either, why because it is not on the East Coast. Most racers consider it a middle ground, just because it is East of the river does not make it an east coast track, far from it. Your argument, tv is the one without anything substantial. When you have nothing to go on you like to talk about who you know and how that give you more credit than anyone on here. I will listen to those who do their own thinking, own digging, and own researching before i will a person who tries to gain credibility base on who they know. You stated Woodbine is East Coast, one it's in Canada, two it is not on the even on the coast. Then you try to say CD is an east coast track because it is on the other side of the river. So is Oaklawn yet I don't here people refer to it as East Coast. Just because it is on one side of a river does not mean it is an East Coast track. Your argument has fallen apart. · 228 days ago ·

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travel_vic · you argument has as many holes as a colander: not only bucking the traditional goegraphic standard, but the racing community standard as well. Are we living in the same universe?? · 228 days ago ·

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travel_vic · Arlington, Thistledown, Keeneland, Parx, Farimont, Hawthorne, Hazel, Fair Grounds, Louisiana Downs, Evangeline Downs, Oaklawn, River Downs, Beulah, Laurel, Timonium. Pimlico, Delaware, Belmont, Finger Lakes, Saratoga, Aqueduct, Suffolk, Monmouth, Atlantic City, Mountineer, Gulfstream, Tampa, Woodbine, Penn National, Charlestown, Turfway, CHurchill, Ellis Park, are all considered EASTERN race tracks! · 228 days ago ·

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travel_vic · forgot Colonial, Kentucky Downs and Hialeah (only q horse racing now), also the soon to become defunct Fort Erie , Assiniboia, Calder, Delta Downs, Presque Isle, The old Meadowlands (now just for the standard bred), and then there are all the hunt meets and NOT A ONE is West of the Mississippi, then there are the training cetner meetings in the winter in Florida. It says there are a tremendous amout of courses in the East as compared to the West. These are ALL thoroughbreds just look where they are running: http://www.nationalsteeplechase.com/racing/schedule/ · 228 days ago ·

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travel_vic · also add Hoosier and Indiana Downs to that EASTERN group · 228 days ago ·

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CauseForConcern · I have notice the majority of your drivel, is condescending, with capital letters spelled out, so that you can possibly make your point. But, you're not saying anything. Every post you make has a similar pattern, and there are many. Quit being so NEGATIVE. Try to say something positive. I don't believe that that would be in your character. You are just negative. So, say what you got to say, and don' · 228 days ago ·

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CauseForConcern · don't post 15 times. It's so SIMPLE!!!! · 228 days ago ·

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icyhotboo · I accidently discovered that the ECB is not just another cospiracy theory, it's real. I went to google to look up the time of the presidential debate and here is what I got. This and only this as though nothing else exists. 9:00pm–10:30pm ET · 228 days ago ·

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travel_vic · the only thing I'm being is FACTUAL over and over. · 228 days ago ·

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CauseForConcern · Whatever!!!! Don't break your arm. Signing off, so you can dwindle the internet public, you GURU, YOU. · 228 days ago ·

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travel_vic · One came to the debate with facts and the other? conjecture. One readily trumps the other. · 228 days ago ·

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TimSmith · I know Woodbine is not on the coast but id say its an east coast track? · 228 days ago ·

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travel_vic · it is very near the coast of Lake Ontario. · 228 days ago ·

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MarcelloMarocco · I live 15 mins from Woodbine. You folks who make comments about our Poly track can get bent. we have the highest purses, the best Turf course, and have the longest running Classic in North America. As far as this East vs West argument is concerned I will agree with Travel Vic. But having said that Santa Anita is a wonderful establishment, I just Wish the project at Hialeah would begin so we can get thoroughbreds back to that gorgeous historic facility. My favorite tracks with my bias included are/were Woodbine, Hialeah, Keeneland, Old gulfstream, Saratoga, New Arlington(post reno's) and the ever so beautiful Santa Anita. I have been to them all, and they are/were just wonderful courses. · 199 days ago ·

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icyhotboo · "nuts" · 199 days ago ·

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TimSmith · Polytrack is a joke.. No denying that.. If woodbine had a dirt Track It would be a top 5 track for sure... · 199 days ago ·

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travel_vic · Poly on an uneven poorly maintained track is a joke, but Arlington and Woodbine work out very well day in day out very stable. Woodbine is a top track as the entire world knows · 199 days ago ·

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travel_vic · Early/late balance numbers relate to energy distribution changes and the track can or cannot add to those. It is usually easy to tell, using them, when material has been added to the track, it is packed down, or dug up deeply. Del Mar and Keeneland do not show that consistency the way that Turfway, Arlington and Woodbine do. It is all about how the crew take care of the course that matters in giving the horsemen a consistent racing surface. · 199 days ago ·

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