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Big Band Sound
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Big Band Sound

6 year old Horse
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Owner(s):

Richard L Shultz - Kendel D. Standlee -

Trainer:

Daniel J. Vella

Bred:

Kentucky (USA) by Richard Shultz - [Add Data]

Pedigree:

Bernstein - Ensnare by Seeking the Gold

Rating:

4.79/10

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What the Nation is saying about Big Band Sound...

Next Question Has Answers in Nearctic

Next Question, expertly handled by Ramon Dominguez, fended off a late charge from Night Carnation by a half-length to win the $500,000 Grade 1 Nearctic Stakes, Sunday at Woodbine, part of the Pattison Canadian International undercard.Read More

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Wise Dan Strong 6-5 Woodbine Mile Favorite

Wise Dan headlines a solid field of nine for Sunday’s Grade 1, $1 million Woodbine Mile.Read More

Show All 66 Comments
stevestylesclark · I love Wise Dan so much! He seems so patient and confident when he runs. No matter the surface, the distance, the track, he to me is the best thoroughbred here in the states. He might not always win, but he is always in the race! I would love to see him ship over to Dubai and make the us states proud with a great effort and possible win! · 278 days ago ·

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ILuvTurfRacing · Citscape finishes 1-1/4 lengths behind Excelebration in the G1 Prix Jacques Le Marois with the likes of Immortal Verse, Elusive Kate, Golden Lilac, and Moonlight Cloud behind him, and he runs the likes of Mutahadee, Ambitious Dragon, Xtension, California Memory, and Musir completely off of their feet to win the G1 Dubai Duty Free by a street and they make Wise Dan the favorite for the G1 Woodbine Mile? LOL, Please. · 278 days ago ·

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travel_vic · Big seminar ON track there at Woodbine Satruday. Wife and I are going on a backstrech tour in the AM and maybe we will se this favorite up close. · 278 days ago ·

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Mary Z. · Looking forward to your report, tv, sincerely. · 278 days ago ·

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AmbitiousD · ILuvTurf, I think you are on to something... I'll take 5-2 on Cityscape in this race any day. He ships well too, and could give Wise Dan a good run if he brings his best stuff · 278 days ago ·

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ILuvTurfRacing · @AmbitioudD, I was being sarcastic when I made that comment. Meaning that I couldn't believe that Cityscape wasn't the favorite instead of Wise Dan for the Woodbine Mile? He's beaten MUCH tougher competition that Wise Dan has, and I also think he'll win the race. · 278 days ago ·

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AmbitiousD · I knew the sarcasm :) But I'll still take Cityscape at 5-2 if it can last. My guess is he'll be more like 9-5 come post time. · 278 days ago ·

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jinlie01 · Wise Dan and Cityscape look solid but like the upset chance of Riding the River at 10-1 morning odds. Seems that he is coming into form this year as 5 yr old gelding. · 278 days ago ·

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illhaveanothertriplecrown · Should be a cake walk · 278 days ago ·

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ILuvTurfRacing · If Cityscape is even anywhere close to his best he'll be too good for anything in the Woodbine Mile. Because frankly, he's been racing and beating much tougher in Europe, and what he beat in Dubai is heads and shoulders above anything in this field, IMO. · 278 days ago ·

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travel_vic · Track may be yiedling on Sunday if the rain keeps up: off the turf today in a down pour. · 278 days ago ·

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yukichan · I am actually landing on Wise Dan, and you know me and my love for the Euros on turf. Dan is, IMO our best turf miler, and he will love a yielding turf if rains continue. His best RPR is a tick higher than Cityscape. Dan's the man for me. · 278 days ago ·

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Mary Z. · 7,3,1,5 · 276 days ago ·

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yukichan · Wise Dan IS the real deal!! · 276 days ago ·

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Mary Z. · Big win by Wise Dan. · 276 days ago ·

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travel_vic · best bet of the day Hunter's Bay runs second at long odds...will pay more than the winner · 276 days ago ·

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AmbitiousD · Wise Dan is a monster. Great trip from Johnny V as well. This pair will be very tough to beat in November · 276 days ago ·

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LAZMANNICK · ILUVTURFRACING Great analysis. Of course now I’m waiting for you to say that Cityscape wasn’t anywhere close to his best. The winner toyed with your favorite, who was under the whip repeatedly. I hope that they run Wise Dan in the BC Mile and I hope that the best milers in Europe run in the race also because I seriously think that Wise Dan would kick a lot of butt. · 276 days ago ·

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stevestylesclark · I believe I started the thread above, but Wise Dan never disappoints. As soon as 23.3 hit the tv I said, later to the rest of the field. I think Cityscape is a good horse, but Wise Dan is a beast. I hope they bring Excelebration over to the Breeders Cup, because he might be the only one who can even contend with WD at a mile on Turf right now! (excluding Frankel of course) · 275 days ago ·

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ILuvTurfRacing · @Lazmannick, I surely won't say Cityscape wasn't near his best. I'll simply I was wrong and Wise Dan was much the best today. · 275 days ago ·

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icyhotboo · ILuvTurfRacing, were going to be wrong more than were right. At least you made a prediction with an analysis before the race, that can never be wrong. Have a nice day · 275 days ago ·

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ILuvTurfRacing · @stevestylesclark, The last I had heard the BC Mile in November was Aidan O'Brien's plan for Excelebration. To my knowledge, that plan hasn't changed yet? · 275 days ago ·

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ILuvTurfRacing · @icyhotboo, thanks for the kind words, and you're absolutely correct. We're always be wrong more than right. If I had handicapping races figured out an exact science then I'd be a millionaire!! LOL. · 275 days ago ·

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footlick · Laz- you have no way of knowing if the horse was in his best form or not. To say that to ILuvTurfRacing was a little disingenuous. Do you know if Cityscape was at his best? Please let me know. Otherwise, there is no need to chastise ILuvTurfRacing. · 275 days ago ·

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footlick · I red that Freddie Head is thinking about bringing Moonlight Cloud to the BC · 275 days ago ·

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footlick · read · 275 days ago ·

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footlick · Cityscapes jock said he was not travelling like he did in Dubai or France. He never felt like he was travelling well. Just reporting the other view, in case people want to hear. · 275 days ago ·

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icyhotboo · footlick, I couldn't get a read on Cityscape because of his inconsistancies, so I didn't bet the race, just watched. So what you say doesn't surprise me at all.It showed on the form he was that kind of horse. · 275 days ago ·

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travel_vic · At the MIle seminar Saturday, all htreee DRF commentators pointed out how rare Wise Dan is: he runs well on dirt, synthetics and turf · 275 days ago ·

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AnnaK · The other Wiseman's Ferry son, Riding The River is another really good horse. We knew he wouldn't beat WD, but for a horse who cost a few thou and came up through the claiming ranks, he's done so well. Tries every time, keeps surprising how good he is. A lovely horse. · 275 days ago ·

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LAZMANNICK · Of course, of course, of course, of course. I wonder if Wise Dan was at his best too. · 275 days ago ·

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footlick · Wise Dan equaled his best RPR number for turf in the Woodbine Mile. Racing Post rates him 1lb better on dirt and synthetic. Cityscape did not run to his best RPR number. But his best number is not as high as Wise Dan's. Wise Dan is a very good consistent horse. I have no problem with him. But there is no need to act like Cityscape is the best Europe can send for the BC. I didn't like the race for any Euros actually and thought that Wise Dan would win with no problem. But, do I think Cityscape ran his best race? No. Now, lets see Wise Dan run against Cityscape in Europe for the rubber match. Oh, I forgot. That isn't allowed. · 275 days ago ·

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footlick · The horse i am interested in is Moonlight Cloud. Let's see if Freddie was serious when he said she was coming for the BC Mile. · 275 days ago ·

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LAZMANNICK · Sorry Footlick, but according to Beyer, this wasn’t Wise Dan’s best turf race either. As for Cityscape, my post wasn’t meant to knock him. I think that he’s had stellar career and he’s also earned a lot of money. My knock was aimed at the condesceneding post well above that stated the merits of some of the horses that Cityscape had beaten followed by the comment: <>. I think that when it came down to it, some people got it right. The ridiculed odds-maker for sure as well as the people that bet their money on Wise Dan. I’m not in any way trying to show disrespect to respectful poster’s opinions, but at some point the Euro horse lovers have to admit that there is occasionally a good horse running over here. · 275 days ago ·

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LAZMANNICK · Part of what I wanted to explain was omitted in my last post…Sorry Footlick, but according to Beyer, this wasn’t Wise Dan’s best turf race either. As for Cityscape, my post wasn’t meant to knock him. I think that he’s had stellar career and he’s also earned a lot of money. My knock was aimed at the condescending post well above that stated the merits of some of the horses that Cityscape had beaten followed by the comment: “they make Wise Dan the favorite for the G1 Woodbine Mile? LOL, Please”. I think that when it came down to it, some people got it right. The ridiculed odds-maker for sure as well as the people that bet their money on Wise Dan. I’m not in any way trying to show disrespect to respectful poster’s opinions, but at some point the Euro horse lovers have to admit that there is occasionally a good horse running over here. · 275 days ago ·

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footlick · Laz- first, I pay no attention to Beyer and he could have given Wise Dan a 120. if does;t matter to me whether he gave him a 105 instead of the 107 he gave him at Saratoga. A two point variation could be for such a huge variety of things that have nothing to do with the horses performance, that I'm perplexed as to why you even used Beyer. Racing Post gave it a 127, the same rating that they gave his race t Saratoga. They also contend that he is marginally better on dirt and all-weather. Wise Dan is respected. As far as comparing the two horses competition that each has faced in their career, can you say that ILuvTurfRacing was wrong? As far as the morning line favorite, I didn't expect Cityscape to be it. I think it was a "looked better than it was" finishing second as Excellebration won as he pleased and was not being pushed out by his jockey. And since I don't feel Cityscape has been in form since Dubai, and I don't consider him in the same league as Excellebration, I would not have made him the morning line favorite. If you want to take offense at how something was stated, that is your prerogative. I just have usually viewed you as someone who is fair and balanced. But, we all have our moments, I guess. As far as Wise Dan, he is rated at 127 on turf and 128 on dirt and all-weather. He is respected by Euro horse lovers and they know he is a talented horse. He has the same RPR rating on turf as Exellebration. But it is things like this, the BC showdown where an equally rated Euro horse is going to ship from Ireland, be in quarantine, get limited time on the course, have to deal with a bull ring by Euro standards and a shorter stretch than they are used to plus different pace scenarios and climate, is gong to be judged by that one performance. And the Euros get no chance at running against American horses in Europe. In many ways, and with your response to ILuvTurfRacing, I wish the BC would be for NA horses only. Let the top Euros go run in Australia and the Far East. That anyone thinks it is fair to a European horse to ship here and try to adapt to so many different things............. I just have to stop, or all my pent up frustration will start to pour out and I won't stop. Just before anyone gloats, just think of what a Euro horse has to go through to compete here, and they do. Then think of what our horses would have to go through to compete there, and they don't. There is no sucj thing as a fair race between a Euro-based horse and an American based horse that takes place in the US. · 275 days ago ·

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footlick · correction- it was a 109 Beyer at Saratoga and a 107 Beyer for Woodbine. Still a 2 pt difference, but i want to be accurate. · 275 days ago ·

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buckpasser · Footy. I understand your point about making the BC just a NA race. Obviously, it was designed to be an international day of racing, but that has fallen by the wayside. Years ago many American horses such as TC winner Omaha went to England and won along with steeplechasers like Battleship and others. carry Back ran in the Arc and Buckpasser' was scheduled to run in it but was unable to negotiate the turf in the Bowling Green with French shoes. For many years many top barns in the US maintained European stables as well like the Phipps, Galbreath, Mellon, Bunker Hunt etc. the only ones that are trying to keep this tradition alive seem to be the Ramseys for American Breeders. I think that the reason many horses stay put here in the states have to do with casino enhanced purses at many tracks and that our breeders don't seem to put as much value in European races as breeders years ago did. For the Europeans to come here it is worth the effort for a large payday. Look at Dubai, they pay the expenses for the horses etc and they owners have a shot at a big purse. · 275 days ago ·

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travel_vic · Beyers: a reflection of final time and NOT A THING about how it was attained. I see horses with lower Beyers beat those with higher Beyers EACH DAY. The animals who faced faster paces of races will beat the slower paces of races each and everu time · 275 days ago ·

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footlick · thx, buckpasser. I did remember that about Buckpasser. Baeza said he was slipping all over the course. · 275 days ago ·

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LAZMANNICK · Gee Travel Vic. More knowledge to share withgus. You never cease to amaze me. · 275 days ago ·

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LAZMANNICK · My personal thoughts are that in most cases respect should be paid the winners of races and except for those times when an excuse should obviously be warranted, excuses should be left in the background. However, in recent years there seems to be a feeling by some that N/A horses aren’t much anymore, certainly not in the same league as Euro horses. True, European horses have come over here and won a lot of prestigious races, especially in the past 10-15 years. However, there seems to be a little too much “they’re much the best” when they win and “something wasn’t right” on those rare occasions when they lose. Maybe the excuses are legitimate, and then again maybe they’re not. True, our so called best horses don’t travel to Europe to run in their prestigious races, but I have a feeling that one of the reasons they don’t is that many of our best are not at their best on grass. If there were high profile races on dirt in Europe then I’m sure that more N/A horses would travel there and compete and I’m sure they would win their share of those races as well as lose their fair share. A case in point is the early days of the Dubai World Cup before the synthetic surface was installed. USA raced horses dominated winning 9 of the first 14 world Cups with Irish horses a distant second with three wins. In the same period, the Dubai Duty Free on turf has never been won by a USA based horse. But one thing stands out in the Dubai World Cup, I don’t think that an Arc winner has ever won it and I doubt since its inception that one has even competed in it. · 275 days ago ·

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footlick · Laz- the Dubai World Cup when it was dirt? Really? How many of the Euros were dirt horses? They were turf horses. They could have used the same excuse as you just gave as to why American horses don't ship. Running surface. And yet, not only did they support it, 5 non-American horses won, and how many times had they raced on dirt before? American horses balk at shipping across country to race because it is too hard, and yet shipping across the ocean, sitting in quarantine, maybe getting to gallop the course twice, running in a track configuration they have never raced on before and dealing with a totally different racing style may be legitimate excuses but may not be also. It is absurd that people forget how far they travel and what they have to go through when they get here. And yet, it is the Europeans who support worldwide racing, shipping to Hong Kong and Japan and Dubai and Australia regularly. Our support of the Dubai races is going to dwindle, and our top turf horses don't seem to want to ship to take on International competition. You think whatever you want. That is your right. As far as Arc winners are concerned, as far as I know they have never won a Japan Cup also. Why would an Arc winner run in the Dubai WC to begin with? I understand the BC or the Japan Cup as they are still in training. But I wouldn;t bring my Arc winner out early to train for a race at the end of March on dirt or synthetic. But that is just me, I guess. · 274 days ago ·

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buckpasser · I wonder if the real reason do many American horses don't go abroad as before has to do with the usage of so many race days in the US which are not allowed abroad · 274 days ago ·

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buckpasser · Footy. I could well see Moonlight Cloud racing here in the BC. He is owned By George Strawbridge an American who resigned from the Horse Assoc. here when it would not vote to ban race day Meds. · 274 days ago ·

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buckpasser · That should read the usage of so many race day Meds in the US. · 274 days ago ·

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footlick · buckpasser- the last I read Freddy Head was very keen on running her in the BC Mile. · 274 days ago ·

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buckpasser · I could see MC running here after all Freddy brought Goldikova here · 274 days ago ·

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footlick · You could be right, buckpasser, as in the old days raceday meds weren't allowed here either. If a horse cannot run one race without meds, then should that horse really be running? If they won;t ship across country, are they really going to ship to Europe to put their horses in a strange country, go through quarantine, and run on a course that they have never encountered before? Euros are expected to do it though. Just like the prevalent opinion here that dirt racing is the only racing that counts. Because turf horses in this country are second class citizens, and synthetic horses are third class. I don't want to get started again. · 274 days ago ·

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buckpasser · Footy. Not to get you upset, but I think that american breeders are not the internationalists that they once were. So many top European horses were brought here in the past to improve the breed that I think we still arrogantly think our racing is the best. In the past given the top studs and mares that we brought that was probably true reflected in the bidding wars at our yearling sales. Now that is not true. There just are not breeders on the level of August Belmont, the Phipps, Warren Wright, etc. who raided Europe to bring the best here. I would think that given the buying and breed enhancement that the Japanese are doing, they are the real heirs of the great breeders. I was incredibly impressed with a program on the Japanese training facilities. Ours are something out of the stone age. · 274 days ago ·

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yukichan · The great Singspiel won the Japan Cup and went on next year to win the Dubai World Cup... · 274 days ago ·

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footlick · not getting me upset. And you are right, they just are not breeding for racing beyond the American microcosm. And you are right about the Japanese breeders. They have studied and learned and invested and it is now paying off. They are breeding high quality horses with stamina. And the sons of Sunday Silence are rocking the breeding shed there. · 274 days ago ·

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yukichan · Sorry, missed the point of thread, or partial thread re: x J Cup, Arc and DWC. Singspiel still awesome and unique in his transcontinental accomplishments! Montjeu was one who won the Arc and finished 4th in the Japan Cup. I will add that the Japan Cup has some jawdropping bonuses for those who win or place in various races around the world to entice the best horses to come to Japan and compete. BC Turf, Arc, Arlington Mil winners can pick up an additional 1.2 mil if they win, $508,000 for a place... · 274 days ago ·

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footlick · Yes yukichan- Singspiel was top class and he did win the Japan Cup ad the DWC. But, starting your high class thoroughbred's season with his first race at the end of March is early for Euros. At least imo. · 274 days ago ·

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LAZMANNICK · Footlick, “The Dubai World Cup. Really. How many of the Euro’s were dirt horses? They are turf horses”…..That sounds like a point I was trying to make. Time of the year aside, I wouldn’t expect them to contest the Dubai World Cup on dirt against high quality dirt horses, just like I didn’t expect American horses to compete in the Dubai Duty Free against some of the world’s best turf horses. I’m not trying to denigrate the Euros and I for one always appreciate when they do come over. I am well aware of how many have run in the BCC over the years and yet had virtually no experience on dirt and it showed. It’s not an easy go to ship over here, but neither is the trip from the States to Dubai……The real point I’m trying to make is that personally I have had enough of the feeling that America’s horses are inferior because of their less than exemplary performances against the better European horses on turf when by far the greatest majority of our best horses don’t race on turf. They race on dirt. If you take “America’s top ten thoroughbreds” from the Bloodhorse list, only three of them ever raced on turf; Secretariat (twice, both wins), Dr. Fager (once, win) and Kelso (eight times with 4 wins and three seconds). That’s it. The top ten raced 307 times on dirt as opposed to 11 times on turf. The simple fact is, the best turf horses will never run against the best dirt horses and have an equal chance on dirt, and visa-versa if the races were contested on turf. But it seems that because our best race on dirt, their dirt performances (and lately on synthetics also), apparently means squat when it comes to determining their level of quality. · 274 days ago ·

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buckpasser · Laz. I would add Round Table to your discussion. He excelled at Turf and was considered one of the greatest of all time. But he was also an exemplary performer on dirt as well. He sired top dirt and grass performers and had a world wide influence on the breed. As a small aside his dam Knights Daughter was bred by King George VI. · 274 days ago ·

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footlick · Laz- you, if I remember correctly, stated that one of the reasons we do not send our horses to Europe is that our best horses are running on dirt. Europeans don't send their best horses here usually. They sent better horses here when the DC International was running than they do now. Their best horses are pointed to the Arc or now Champions Day in Britain and then go to Japan or Hong Kong or both. The fact that Secretariat, Dr Fager and Kelso could run on both surfaces, as well as the Euro WC winners when it was still run on dirt should tell you that there are horses that can do it. Damascus ran a bang up race in the DC International in his only turf race. Buckpasser's shoes cost him at least 10 lengths, according to Baeza if I remember correctly also, costing him the race. · 274 days ago ·

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footlick · Laz- you, if I remember correctly, stated that one of the reasons we do not send our horses to Europe is that our best horses are running on dirt. Europeans don't send their best horses here usually. They sent better horses here when the DC International was running than they do now. Their best horses are pointed to the Arc or now Champions Day in Britain and then go to Japan or Hong Kong or both. The fact that Secretariat, Dr Fager and Kelso could run on both surfaces, as well as the Euro WC winners when it was still run on dirt should tell you that there are horses that can do it. Damascus ran a bang up race in the DC International in his only turf race. Buckpasser's shoes cost him at least 10 lengths, according to Baeza if I remember correctly also, costing him the race. tht · 274 days ago ·

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footlick · you know what Laz, since i hit the wrong key on my computer, instead of finishing my post I'm just going to tell you to believe whatever you want. I'm done. They make the effort and we don't reciprocate. And their effort obviously is not appreciated and taken for granted. · 274 days ago ·

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footlick · Buckpasser-Damascus ran a bang up race in the DC International. May Whittingham trainees would occasionally make a different surface start. · 274 days ago ·

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LAZMANNICK · Buckpasser your comments about Round Table were expected, but I was only listing Bloodhorse’s Top 10. To me, Round Table’s exclusion from the Bloodhorse top ten is ridiculous and perhaps makes a point about how North Americans feel about turf racing as opposed to dirt. I firmly believe that if his career had been defined by his turf record alone he would have been a top ten for sure. Round Table won HOY in 1958 when he made 20 total starts with 14 on dirt and 6 on Turf. He was voted top Turf Horse in 57-58-59, and top Handicap Horse in 58-59. And I believe that when he retired he was N/A’s all-time money winning leader. He was a great dirt horse, but had the misfortune of being part of perhaps N/A’s best and deepest overall three year old crop of 1957. His turf record should be envied anywhere throughout the world. He made 16 total turf starts and won 14 and lost two, one by a half length to Clem when carrying 130 lbs. to Clem’s 113. His other loss was in the Washington Birthday when he cut himself and finished 16th and last by 30 lengths. He was laid up for four months before returning to win the Citation Handicap on dirt in 1.33 2/5 while again carrying 130 lbs. and giving the runner up 26 lbs. He was a great weight carrier, often carrying 130 lbs. or more and always giving away great chunks of weight. He set or tied several track records and 16 times had the best three year time at various distances at various tracks. He won on both soft as well as firm going on turf. I can’t say for sure, but I believe that his 1.58 3/5ths on dirt as a three year old in the ’57 HGC at 10F might have been the best at that distance until The Bid broke it in the Strub Stakes. I firmly believe that he was a world class turf horse in any era and is my all-time favorite N/A turf horse ahead of Manila, Lure, Fort Marcy and Hawaii/ Assagai tied. · 274 days ago ·

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LAZMANNICK · Footlick, no argument from me about making the effort. I firmly believe that the main reason N/A’s never made the effort was because of a total lack of confidence on turf. Over and out. · 274 days ago ·

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forego139 · Just imagine Wise Dan for the Mile and Point Of Entry for the Turf, Bring on the Euro's · 274 days ago ·

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travel_vic · The European contingent is usually stronger, BUT theweather there and that VERY SHORT STRETCH for them to over come · 274 days ago ·

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Buckpasser · Laz. Agree with you about Round Table being overlooked by not being in the top ten · 274 days ago ·

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travel_vic · Round table toted big weight and ran on several surfaces. · 274 days ago ·

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Limited pace may make for limitless stretch drama in Woodbine Mile

Wise Dan could make Charles Lopresti the first trainer ever to win back-to-back editions of the one-mile turf contest on the E.P. Taylor Turf Course.Read More

Show All 5 Comments
BrianZipse · Who would have thought a few years ago that Charles Lopresti would be primed to win two straight in the Woodbine Mile? · 277 days ago ·

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ILuvTurfRacing · If this field lets Cityscape get out on an easy lead at Woodbine, he'll run this field right off their feet just like he did the G1 Dubai Duty Free field. Trust me when I tell you that he ran a lot tougher group horses under in Dubai than he's facing at Woodbine, IMO. · 277 days ago ·

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fastnfurious · Cityscape will beat this field and beat them whole. · 277 days ago ·

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travel_vic · Cityscape has run with the better crowd and is very consistent, but RARELY do horses on the lead win this contest. If Polytrack was equivalent to the lawn, then 6 Hunte's Bay moves up tremdously, but that is not always the case. Mark my words at the end of the day, the Irish Breds will make names for themselves as they always do on that VERY LONG stretch. · 277 days ago ·

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zatt · Nice call on the exacta! · 276 days ago ·

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