| Join for Free

Ticker

From DRF (The Inside Post): Always in a Tiz will run in Belmont Stakes 2013.Posted 43 minutes ago
Mucho Macho Man breezed 5f in 1:01.40 (4/11) at Fair Hill on 5-24. Posted 1 hour ago
Wise Dan targets the G2 Firecracker 'Cap at Churchill on June 29. Posted 19 hours ago
Jockey Chantal Sutherland will return to saddle at Del Mar. Posted 1 day ago
Itsmyluckyday to skip Belmont Stakes 2013 in favor of Pegasus Stakes on 6-16. Posted 1 day ago
Rosie Napravnik will ride Code West in Belmont Stakes 2013. Posted 1 day ago
From DRF (The Inside Post): Mylute will not run in Belmont Stakes 2013. Posted 1 day ago
Eblouissante breezed 4f :49.17 (18/44) at Belmont (dirt Training) on 5-22. Posted 1 day ago
Giant Finish will make his next start in Belmont Stakes 2013. Posted 2 days ago
Unlimited Budget is expected to face males in Belmont Stakes 2013. Posted 3 days ago

Ride
Affirmed
against other champions!

Affirmed

1975 - Horse
Deceased
18 fans18

47 favorites47

[Edit]

Owner(s):

Harbor View Farm

Trainer:

Lazaro S. Barrera

Bred:

Florida (USA) by Harbor View Farm

Pedigree:

Exclusive Native - Won't Tell You by Crafty Admiral

Rating:

9.30/10

Profile

Pedigree

Progeny

Siblings

Photos

What the Horse Racing Nation is saying about Affirmed...

Ghosts of Kentucky Derby Past

After watching several of the Kentucky Derbies from the 70s and the 80s, my conclusion that I missed out on all the best runnings of the race was solidified.Read More

Show All 9 Comments
zatt · Love it ... a little too much mention of that Zipse guy, but still a fun article! · 20 days ago ·

like

1

1
avillanueva3rd1 · Total historian here when it comes to horse racing, as I love the older generation horses. Nice story. · 20 days ago ·

like

0

0
darlene · oh the wonder of the 70s and the exciting horses of that decade Starting with the improbable Canonero II then 3 Triple Crowns and ending with the fantastic Bid Never be another decade like it · 20 days ago ·

like

0

0
JohnByrd · Great write up, Ashley! · 20 days ago ·

like

0

0
amino998 · Nice memories>> It's funny how Bid's Belmont has distilled down to *a freak accident with a safety pin* over the years. · 20 days ago ·

like

0

0
travel_vic · Derby parameters in flux, or are there too many lates here? Two main things guide the evaluation of a horse race: 1) it has all happened before in racing and the observant follower can recognize the patterns and 2) CHANGE is inevitable in our lives. The wise prepare for paradigm shifts. A shift in the parameters MAY be upon us. The total energy standards of the range 163-165 (updated Trackmaster speed ratings bumped this up from 161-163) along with a very stable % median range of 67.to 67.9 averaging in their last several Derby preps have been the standards since Charismatic. Only twice (Barbaro, the Brown Out) have median earlier than that standard come in, but then these two had huge advantages in total energy, which, one could argue, off set them. Over the years those running consistently above 67.9 or below 67.2 (lots of them in Pyro, Paddy O’Prado, Creative Cause, El Padrino, Union Rags, Afleet Alex, Dullahan) were just too late. I have, just this week, discovered independent research in this same area that confirms this earlier requirement. The Silky Sullivan types LOOK the part, but they simply don’t deliver come Derby Day. Colts demonstrating a drop off in total energy within the bounds of the correct % median are under-represented. Those many colts who’s %median climbed as the distances increased never made it either (Pollard’s Vision, Bob n’John, Bellamy Road and many others) whereas those right on the boundary at 68.0 often were pace animals that stuck around to the finish: Lion Heart, Hard Spun. Given this as a back drop to this year’s run, we have to pivot the entire understanding of the race on the logical undefeated post time favorite: Verrazano. (An aside we were all looking at the past performances of Derby 1973 as I had it out yesterday and the thing that struck everyone was how many starts all the colts had that year before the Derby, they were ready). IN many years, one could easily make a case for his lack of seasoning with so few starts. What really got me is his very low % median and his exiting paces of very slow fractions. Averaging % median, he is just now getting into the bottom part of the range at 67.2. Barbaro was like this one a style less position front runner: NO matter the pace, he was close to it either fast or slow. SO, we either have a budding superstar, or a big one that is going to be exposed as running too late. Either way the odds are not going to be close to worth it. The reason a paradigm shift might be in the works is what we see in the rest of the major runners; Revolutionary is at the bottom end of % median, Normandy Invasion is far too late but improving, Charming Kitten (too late at 66.5), Java’s War (in the turf category at 66.5 too too far back) and Vyjack coming in at a paltry 66.8. SO IF these get up, we know things have changed because based upon tradition they should not. On the other side of the coin are those too early of which the biggest is Goldencents (68.5), Frac Daddy, Falling Sky (correct name?), like past year’s Trinniberg, Giant Finish?, Itsmyluckyday (one race wonder, but close to parameters that single time). The rest have to be matched up fu qualify, not all just these (I hate to say it but Lukas) Oxbow although going backward, Golden Pool, Mylute, Over, Palace , Will Take Charge Overanalyze and Orb. The match up will distinguish them, but so far I am in agreement with many who that think this year it is too deep to logically wager on unless exotics are your thing. Let’s see if the paradigm has changed or not: it all depends on how Verrazano does · 20 days ago ·

like

0

0
travel_vic · YES, you did Swale, Norther Dancer, Secretariat, Slew, Affirmed/ALydar, Bid etc. · 20 days ago ·

like

0

0
rafirox · Great comment, vic. · 20 days ago ·

like

0

0
travel_vic · Rail makes the earlies easier to contend and win so the lates now are even more compromised. · 20 days ago ·

like

0

0

Where have all the Triple Crowns gone?

35 years and counting, Triple Crowns of the past are now just a wonderful, but distant memory.Read More

Show All 71 Comments
jane.raymond.7 · The one thing I keep coming back to is that something in the training systems changed in the 80's. · 27 days ago ·

like

3

3
travel_vic · no more druggies were tolearated · 27 days ago ·

like

3

3
ruffian65 · Great article Brian and I too was one of the young fans of the 70s and fully expected the Bid to win, its..what we had got used too. Never saw a drought like this coming...but man, so glad I was alive to see and remember back then. · 27 days ago ·

like

2

2
sallyeastman · I · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
sallyeastman · I loved Victory Gallop! This year Revolutionary looks to be VG's reincarnation! · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
laura.statespoelstra · I lived through the thrill that was the 70's and have agonized ever since. My theories? Lasix, emphasis on extreme speed in breeding (the quick refund on purchase price) and neglecting the staying blood (the stallions wind up overseas when they don't get those precocious babies). Another theory is the drought began with the influx of Quarter Horse trainers. They didn't and don't know how to prep a horse for a route, and I don't mean 9 furlongs. The ability to work 5f in 1:00 in no way correlates to the ability to get 10f. Horses no longer work more than a mile and don't work more than once a week. When my daughter was doing cross country, they ran six miles at speed every day to race only three miles. Today's TB trainers do just the opposite. No wonder we can't get a Triple Crown winner. They're not bred to trained for it anymore. · 27 days ago ·

like

6

6
tony bada bing · Was at Real Quiet's Belmont - remembering the roar at top the stretch still brings goosebumps - took a while for that photo to be posted. At least I had the tri... · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
rafirox · Zipse, I also was one of those spoiled childre able to watch the 70's fantastic horses. I still remember when I was 5, watching the litte Black & White telly, Secretariat winning the Belmont by 31 lengths. My uncle was saying "Too fast! Too fast! He can't keep that pace!" and my Dad was cursing Turcotte: "What the hell are you doing? You're going to ruin this horse! You moron! He's going to break down in thhe stretch!!!" And he kept going. I remember, down the lane, our jaw's just dropped. I wasn't old enough to truly understand his portraying dominance, but I was saying inside my head "Wow, what a monster!" I remember my father predicted Seattle Slew's Triple Crown in 1978, so I also predicted it (even though I hardly knew about the sport at that age) and watching Seattle Slew win each of the three races easily, wow! I remember watching Affirmed vs. Alydar. My dad was an Alydar fan, and was pulling for him. I bet my dad that Affirmed would win, and if he did, he'd have to make my bed for a month. But, if Alydar won, I would have too do the lawn for the next three months. Affirmed wouldn't let the monster get by him. I remember watching the entire stretch drive, and they were head to head! I was privileged to be able to see Spectacular Bid's Belmont in person, and another one of his 4 yr old races. He was great., but the pinhead ride just diminished his cchances. I think at this point many people, if they even have experienced it, have forgotten how fun it is to watch a monster sweep the series. For crying out loud, we have seen many great horses since '78. Lure, Cigar, Real Quiet, Sunday Silence, Easy Goer, Afleet Alex, Curlin, Big Brown, Rachel Alexandra, Havre de Grace, Zenyatta, I'll Have Another, etc... But, we have yet to see a TC in a while, and I want one soon. It will have a definite positive affect on racing, and on top of that, I want to see a horse who is strong enough, has the heart, and talented enough to sweep it. The idiotic inbred breeding, the ridiculous training methods, and the medications all play a role in making this already difficult sweep, much, much harder. · 27 days ago ·

like

6

6
MjHawk · Great piece, Brian, and I, too, was lucky enough to see Secretariat on TV and that was an amazing run. Rafirox, I enjoyed your reminiscences as well. "Too fast, too fast!" I was just a teenager, but I thought the same thing. · 27 days ago ·

like

2

2
rafirox · LOL, Mj. I was so little I barely comprehended what was occuring. Despite that, the memory of seeing that monster romp the stretch. Generally, when we see a horse win by 8-10 lengths, we are blown away. Usually, that is a result of the pace in favor towards them. The fact Secretariat kept the pace of 23 and change, 46 and change, 1:09 and change, 1:34 and change and finishing the 12 furlongs in 2:24 was just incredible. As t_v has noted, the '73 Belmont surface distributed 15 track records that year, but nonetheless, it was the best race run I've ever seen. Usually, when a horse beats the track record, it is by 1/5, maybe 2/5 or 3/5 of a second... He shaved 2 full seconds off the record!!!! Just a monster... · 27 days ago ·

like

1

1
EvanAnouna · the triple crown will be won agian as long as racing continues. it may not be in our lifetime but it will happen · 27 days ago ·

like

1

1
Jay S. · IMO, Risen Star (Possibly the most underrated horse of the last 50 years) is the one that really had it in him. Bad racing luck in the Derby for him and Eddie D. · 27 days ago ·

like

2

2
rafirox · He was deserving, Jay. I think, to me, the most devastating was Real Quiet. He was my first Derby killer, so he has sentimental value. I nailed him big time that year at 8-1. I saw something in his stride no one else did. He came SO CLOSE to sweeping it with a broom, but he just missed. Smarty Jones was also sad. I've seen that race 100 times, and everytime I hope Smarty holds him off, but he never does. · 27 days ago ·

like

1

1
rafirox · Afleet Alex definitely had the talent to sweep it. I remember the rail was dead that day, as it is many big days, and Jeremy Rose dumped him on the rail... He should have had it. · 27 days ago ·

like

2

2
Jay S. · So true rafi...so true to both posts. · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
zxswordxz · @JayS - Agreed with you about Risen Star. BTW...Eddie was very upset after the race because he was instructed by Louie to keep the horse at the back but Eddie realize that the horse wants to be near the leaders. After the Derby he make the adjustment and the rest was history. · 27 days ago ·

like

2

2
zxswordxz · Just adding: Afleet Alex and Point Given also was unfortunate horses. Eskendereya was a horse that I pick to win the triple crown but never had the opportunity to strut his stuff. · 27 days ago ·

like

1

1
Jay S. · Excellent story zxswordxz! Yeah, that's really too bad. I bet Eddie D. was disappointed about that. · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
kaitlinefree1 · I'll Have Another was stalker like / closer. i think had he not been injured, he would have had a real chance in the Belmont. · 27 days ago ·

like

1

1
UnionRagsRules · No matter how much I love Union rags, I would have wanted I'll Have Another to win. On the bright side, I might have picked out the exacta! · 27 days ago ·

like

1

1
AndyScoggin · I'm even older than Zipse, so the 70's was more golden for me. The lack of a TC winner since then makes the 70's seem even more rare and precious, maybe even the platinum era of racing! · 27 days ago ·

like

3

3
ScottDick · Disappointment is the only word that comes to mind when I think of my triple crown experiences. I've yet to see one in my lifetime. Hopefully this will be the year! · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
BrianZipse · Very true, Jay S. (I wrote about my feelings on Risen Star just a few weeks ago http://www.horseracingnation.com/blogs/zatt/Louisiana_Derby_Legend_Risen_Star_123), but for this piece, I stuck with only horses that made it to the Belmont in position to win the Triple Crown. · 27 days ago ·

like

1

1
rafirox · Great points and story, Sword. I was also thinking about predicting his Triple Crown, but I talked myself out of it. He had an amazing stride, it was 2x the other horses! His backstretch stride was "determined" as Tom Durkin put it. He was a true monster and I honestly think he could have done it. I also believe Barbaro could have done it. After seeing him romp races, but then having the heart in the Florida Derby, I predicted his Triple Crown. I hit over $1,800 on the KY Derby that year. After his breakdown, and what Bernardini went on to do, I still think Barbaro would have done it. I even donated all my winnings on him to research for that dreadful disease. I think I'll Have Another could have done it, if not for the injury. I don't think he would have, I was prepared to bet Union Rags $20 Across, but his odds detreated after the I'll Have Another scratch. I think Union Rags would have beaten him, to be honest, but I think he would have challenged, and maybe won. Dr. Fager didn't run in the Triple Crown, but he would have won it. Those are four that couldn't finish or didn't run that may have done it. But, than of course, you have horses like Alydar and Sham. Those two talented horses would have done it, especially Alydar, in most any other year. Alydar is one of the most underrated horses of all time. If you rank Affirmed in top 10, he should be top 15. With all these "Could have been's" it really shows how hard this task is. First, the 20 horse field, ten furlong distance, quirky surface, humongous crowd, you face 19 other of the best 3 yr old's in the country. In the Preakness, you face the best again, sharp turns. Than the Belmont, a testing 12 furlong distance, big turns, sandy surface. That's three tough races in five weeks, three G1 races, three different tracks, three different distances. Name a horse who can accomplish those 3 races? It is a very difficult task, so when a horse wins it is very, very special. The idiotic inbred breeding, the ridiculous training methods and the overuse of medications all play a role in making this tough task all the more difficult. I think the next Triple Crown winner will come from an old school trainer and willing to stick to better, older training methods. The breeding hubub makes it even more difficult. A colt with value gets $$$$$$, so we won't even see thhem after the TC!!!! · 27 days ago ·

like

1

1
CauseForConcern · The one that I thought was deserving, but a (I think) safety pin? A.P. Indy looked to be a man among children, but, he was scratched the day of the Derby, and prevailed impressively in the Belmont. · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
rafirox · Oh, yes, CFC. I forgot him. He definitely would · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
rafirox · 've done it, IMO. · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
Jay S. · Brian, unfortunately I missed your article on Risen Star and the link you put-in your comment doesn't seem to be active. I sure would like to read that one for sure. I'll hunt around for an archive or look under Risen Star's profile. Thanks. · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
zxswordxz · http://www.horseracingnation.com/blogs/zatt/Louisiana_Derby_Legend_Risen_Star_123 · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
zxswordxz · http://www.horseracingnation.com/blogs/zatt/Louisiana_Derby_Legend_Risen_Star_123 · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
Jay S. · Brian, the link did work. (I was initially including the parenthesis at the end). OUTSTANDING portrait of Risen Star. Really took me back. People always say Secretariat couldn't reproduce himself. I say that would've been impossible. But Risen Star really wasn't far off. · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
zxswordxz · That was a wonderful article Brian. I love it. I was very young when he run and I was super pump that the son of my favorite horse is going to make his daddy very proud. I remember screaming when I see him at the back and yelling at the TV for the jockey to urge him to move closer to Winning Color. One of the first rule I learn, a uncontested horse on the lead that can relax will win most of the time. · 27 days ago ·

like

1

1
Jay S. · One thing I really like about your articles is that you and I are almost the exact same age, and you've very talented at articulating the "Feel" of the time about those horses. · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
rafirox · I think we are near the same age, Brian and Jay. I was born on 12/14/68..... How 'bout you guys? · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
Jay S. · Just the greatest year model ever...1967. :) · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
the bid · I started following racing in 1977, The Bid was the most deserving, but for that damn safety pin, The seventies was a very specail decade of racing. I know in my lifetime we will never witness that era of greatness again..... · 27 days ago ·

like

2

2
rafirox · The safety pin excuse was never proven. The only pin was the pinhead riding him... Spectacular Bid is one of the best I've ever seen, and if not for the ill-timed ride, he would have won the Belmont. Even after, Frankling admitted he was trying to show the world how good 'Bid was, and he was trying to prove he was better than Secretariat (or, downgrade his Belmont, in other words)... Either way, Spectacular Bid went on to have a spectacular 4 yr old season, and it stamps him, to me, as a top 5 or 6 all time horse. He was a perfect example of portraying dominance race after race, day after day. I know some older gentlemen who claim the 'Bid was better than Secretariat, and if 'Bid won the Belmont, we'd all be making that discussion, as it is somewhat justified, if he had won. But, IMO, Secretariat was the best horse of all time. I even met him when I was 17. It was an incredible experience. Just him, my dad, the groom, some other spectators, and me. We fed him peppermints, and he gave me evil stares... That arrogant son of a bitch. For any new fans to the sport, I recommend watching the Secretariat feautre on ESPN Sports Century. It gives you some excellent fact you'd probably wouldn't know. I'll post a link if anyone is interested. · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
rafirox · the Bid. I agree completely. The 70's was a fantastic decade for the sport. It shows how much fans love watching Triple Crowns. Those were the days where Secretariat, the big chestnut from Virginia, the smartest horse of all time, maybe the prettiest, so good he should be called G-d Disguised as a Horse. Then came 1975. Foolish Pleasure, Aviatar, Ruffian, etc. Ruffian's amazing front end speed, never before seen. I remember one time, I saw a feautre where they were showing her first work. Frank Whiteley said "Go nice and easy three furlongs. Gallop out easy for a half. I want a 37 or 38. Nice and easy.".... When the rider came back, Whiteley chuckled and asked: "How fast did you think you went, son?"... The young rider responded: "I don't know maybe 37. Why?" Whiteley: "No. Try 33 and change!" Rider: "No way, I would have felt it!".... Her stride was so long and effortless, she was just unstoppable. With her excellent speed, which is key for a match race, I believe she would have left Foolish Pleasure, a HOF horse, in the dust. If the Battle of the Sexes had a positive outcome, it would have been positive for racing. Than, we all watched Seattle Slew dominate the 1977 Triple Crown. We than saw Affirmed vs. Alydar, and that brought fans. So, with all this said, the 70's was definitely a golden era for racing, and we will never, at least in my life span, see another decade like that. On the flip side, the bid, while I agree with your points, the 40's racing was also great. In the Fab' 40's, horse racing was the second most popular sport in America. Whirlaway, Coal Town (right name?), Citation, etc. · 27 days ago ·

like

1

1
UnionRagsRules · rafi... you really feel Union Rags would have won? I wanted him to race him so bad, and see what we got with the trips both of them want. It would have been a good race, for sure. I love Rags, but he pretty much got lucky with his size and stride. He had some heart, but not a lot, JMO. · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
rafirox · For crying out loud, the 40's had Noor and Bewitch!!!! · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
Sullivan · Rafi, Coaltown is one word. The 40's was the deade of Calumet, yes, but the 30's was when Horse Racing was uncontested. TV killed the sport as track officials actually opted out of having races be televised... if not for the few like Alfred Vanderbilt, it could've been lost altogether · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
rafirox · URR. It's not that I am bagging I'll Have Another, but I believe many people don't understand how hard it is to win The Triple Crown. Silver Charm, Real Quiet, Smarty Jones, Barbaro, Big Brown and I'll Have Another were all "sure things" to win the TC after the first two jewels. But, the third jewel is not an easy task. In between the 1948-1973 drought, 11, count, 7 horses won the first two jewels on the Triple Crown. In between 1978, there have been even more! Spectacular Bid in '79, Alysheba in '88, Sunday Silence in '89, Silver Charm in '97, Real Quiet in '98, Charismatic in '99, War Emblem in '02, Funny Cide in '03, Smarty Jones in '04, Big Brown in '08, and I'll Have Another in '12.... These are KY/Preakness Doubles, but you could add the fact that A.P Indy could have done it, Risen Star could have done it. Many were pegging Barbaro's Triple Crown Afleet Alex could have if not for having a bad trip in the '05 Derby, the list goes on and on. My point, there have been so many "sure things" heading in to the thrid jewel, what makes people think I'll Have Another would have become the one colt to overcome the third jewel? Sunday Silence was great, he couldn · 27 days ago ·

like

1

1
jonah5110 · Of these near misses, how many have been inducted into the Hall Of Fame? · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
Sullivan · What on earth makes you think people don't understand how hard it is to win the Triple Crown? · 27 days ago ·

like

1

1
rafirox · 't do it! The list goes on and on... The Test of the Champions takes down so many champions, and it takes a true champion to do it. Was IHA that champion? I'm iffy on it. Union Rags had talent and had the right trip. There are so many factors. What if IHA didn't like the surface? Had a premature ride? got boxxed in? We have no idea. He had the talent, but MANY horses have had the talent but didn't do it. Afleet Alex, Barbaro, Smarty Jones, etc are recent examples. I wouldn't be saying he would have... it's not easy to say so. Also, this shows how much a Triple Crown is good for racing. As previous stated by me, the 40's (Whirlaway in '41, Count Fleet in '43, Assault in '46 and Citation in '48) and the 70's (Secretariat in '73, Seattle Slew in '77, and Affimremd in '78) Shows how good a tc is for racing. Also, I'd like to point out, the 40's racing had more than mentioned. Whirlaway, Alsab, Count Fleet, Assault, Noor, Bewitch, Citation, etc. · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
Sullivan · Union Rags was very simply overrated. · 27 days ago ·

like

1

1
rafirox · I believe this is my best thread ever. I love my posts on it. @jonah. Great question, I'll try to find the answer (as I don't know off hand). · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
Jay S. · Ever notice how enjoyable this site is until the two multi-account Butt Pirates show up? See y'all tonight. · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
Sullivan · Multiaccount butt pirates? Care to elaborate Jay S.? As far as I have seen today tcglory has not been a pain in the butt · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
rafirox · See ya tonight, Jay. This is my favorite thread ever. I lvoe my comments on it. Re-reading, pretending I'm someone else, my posts sound so knowledgable and informal! My posts on THIS THREAD sound almost as ggood as, dare I say, the experts like Buckpasser and LAZ write on a REGULAR BASIS. @Jonah. What is your definition of a near miss? I assume you mean 2 out of thhe 3 jewels? Please clarify. · 27 days ago ·

like

2

2
rafirox · Sullivan, please don't ruin this thread, I beg of you. · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
Mary Z. · Buckpasser and Laz have nothing to worry about. · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
Mary Z. · And, they don't brag about them selves*. · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
rafirox · Great, now you said I insulted them. That was not an insult, but a compliment. Notice how I wrote "Re-reading, pretending I'm someone else, my posts sound so knowledgable and informal! My posts on THIS THREAD sound almost as ggood as, dare I say, the experts like Buckpasser and LAZ write on a REGULAR BASIS. " Notice how I wrote how they post this golden stuff on a REGULAR BASIS. Rather just one thread. I'll try to dodge all the arguments coming up, like jay. I think I'll just log-off and wait for Mary and Cocoa to leave... Site is usually more fun that way. · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
rafirox · @Buckpasser and LAZ. Please realize that post was a compliment, not an insult like Mary was wrongly suggesting. Have a good one! · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
Mary Z. · Douche is an insult to the actual product. I didn't use any insults in my two previous posts. · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
Sullivan · Ruin this thread? I think "wait for Mary and Cocoa to leave... Site is usually more fun that way" did the trick. · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
Mary Z. · Countdown to the early return in whichever form. · 27 days ago ·

like

1

1
Buckpasser · No problem Rafi. I don't take offense easily. Have been a lawyer for too many years. I would just like today here that I understand the fans' frustration with the drought in TC winners, but I also look back and remember the the drought between Citation and Secretariat and all the might have Beens as well. That prior to Secretariat and with so many failures, racing writers asked was the TC too hard to win. And then of course came Secretariat and Seattle Slew and Affirmed in fairly rapid succession with a near miss by Spectacular Bid. Then the writers asked was the TC too easy to win and shouldn't changes be made to make it harder. Now we have a long drought and the question becomes is the TC too hard to win? The TC will come and may well be an extremely memorable victory like Secretariat's Belmont. · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
rafirox · Good, Buckpasser. As I said, if I'm not mistaken, 7 horses won the KY/Preakness before losing the Belmont in between '48-'73. Since Affirmed won it in 1978, as I posted: Spectacular Bid in '79, Alysheba in '87 (please disregard that I accidentally said '88 in my original post), Sunday Silence in '89, Silver Charm in '97, Real Quiet in '98, Charismatic in '99, War Emblem in '02, Funny Cide in '03, Smarty Jones in '04, Big Brown in '08, and I'll Have Another in '12 all failed to win the Belmont. Than, of course, horses like A.P Indy in '92 who won the Belmont, but was unraced in KY and Preakness due to injury, Point Given could have done it if not for the poor trip, Risen Star could have done it if not for the trip. Afleet Alex in '05 missed out on the Derby, where despite the rail being dead, Rose dropped him onto the rail. In '06 Barbaro won the Derby in scintillating fashion, but was injured in Preakness. The list goes on and on. So many come so close, but it's that final step to get by which is truly difficult. As I said, three G1's, three different distances on three different tracks in five weeks is difficult. There are long droughts, and then, as you said, TC's that come in somewhat rapid fashion. I think that's the art to it. But, as we continues towards this downward spiral, the TC is getting more and more difficult for an abundace of reasons. Terrible training methods (We've had several discussions about that). Horses are inbred like crap. Overuse of medication... It's ust adds to the obstacles a horse must overcome to win the Triple Crown. The Triple Crown will eventually happen, but the longer it's nonexistent, the more fans will stop waiting for it to happen. As I said, the 40's (Whirlaway, Count Fleet, Assault, and Citation's) and in the 70's (Secretariat, Seattle Slew, and Affirmed's) were the golden ages for racing. There is no doubt that a TC would have a definite positive affect on racing. · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
Buckpasser · I believe England's drought is longer with Nijinsky 1970. · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
rafirox · Yes, Buckpasser, it is. The St. Leger makes the English Triple Crown extremely difficult, even more difficult than the Amercan Triple Crown. · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
Buckpasser · Definitely as Camelot's failure proved. I remember when Nijinsky won the St. Leger the British papers reported that he lost over 44 lbs. during the race. · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
rafirox · Yes. The 1 13/16 distance is very testing. That's what allowed Encke to nip by Camelot in the late stages of that run. I've heard that about Nijinsky. Nijinksy (or in America known as Nijinsky II) was quite the horse. He broke a 36 year drought of the English Triple Crown, and since his victories, not horse in 33 years has done it. So, based on there has only been ONE English Triple Crown in the past 98 years, I would assume that the English Triple Crown is harder. Especially the St. Leger. · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
Sullivan · It's not hearing when you read it on Wikipedia · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
rafirox · Troll. Plain out troll. I actually only know that from Buckpasser's posts about it (he has mentioned it several times).... Buckpasser, i apologize. I'm logging off. I'll talk to you later today on this thread. · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
Sullivan · You know you don't have to lie for people to like you, rafi, right? · 27 days ago ·

like

0

0
CauseForConcern · One that is usually omitted, and probably hardly ever thought of. And, came around the backside of the Triple Crown winners of the '70's. Pleasant Colony and Johnny Campo. · 26 days ago ·

like

0

0
Sullivan · Another omitted is Bold Forbes · 26 days ago ·

like

0

0
travel_vic · I saw three of them I am glad to say, many misses too....Thought Swale would have done it. · 26 days ago ·

like

2

2
CauseForConcern · The list is many, but, how about Hansel? · 26 days ago ·

like

0

0

Affirmed

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/77280/cauthen-pincay-recall-affirmeds-progression

Show All 3 Comments
zxswordxz · Wonderful article. Steve Cauthen look like a 10 year old and I agreed with him that Point Given should have win the Triple Crown! · 50 days ago ·

like

0

0
rafirox · Thank you for sharing, Sword. Wonderful article. · 50 days ago ·

like

0

0
travel_vic · Into his 4 y/o season Barrera lamented that he pushed him too much which accounted for body soreness and a less than stellar start that Winter at Santa Anita. · 50 days ago ·

like

0

0

A Kentucky Derby Field with Just 14 Horses?

The new points system has had enough debate. Let’s take a more radical look at the Kentucky Derby and think about what would change if the maximum field were 14. Read More

Show All 72 Comments
BrianZipse · I know so many that are for the reduction of the Derby field, but this is the first reasoning I have seen predicated on quality control ... very convincing, Matt! · 59 days ago ·

like

3

3
CauseForConcern · From a historical standpoint, this is good reasoning. From a handicapper's viewpoint, I consider this the greatest challenge. To successfully handicap the Kentucky Derby is most rewarding when considering the exotics. The size of the field inflates the pari-mutuel payoffs. And, for a full year, you can brag about how you nailed the Derby. Or, better yet, your acquaintances will tell the tale, and you can gloat the whole way!!!!! · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
rafirox · "And, for a full year, you can brag about how you nailed the Derby." I still brag about hitting Barbaro, lol. · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
Dressage3295 · Completely agree with a smaller field. Better chance for the best horse to shine instead of the luckiest. · 59 days ago ·

like

3

3
tcglory · You know what they say dont fix what isint broken! I dont think the field or anything with 20 horses is the problem. I think the new point system will make it ahrder to win a triple crown cause your only gonna see classic type horese in the field. And maybe we just havent seen that next great horse and i mean we have seen good horses but maybe just not one so superior to win it. Trainers are trying there hardest and so are breeders to breed the next champion and trainers are saving as much horse as possible to take all 3 vigrious races. · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
AmbitiousD · Very nice article, Matt. These are my 2 conclusions based on your points above. #1 is that I am not for reducing the field size to better the chance of a triple crown winner. Sure, half the TC winners did so against Derby fields of less than 14, but the other half... #2 I agree that "win and you're in" from this year's Sunland Derby may not be the best of the Kentucky Derby field, but with a 800k purse, they would have gotten in under the old conditions as well. I think the point system can be improved by either reducing the value of the 50/100 point races, or increasing the point value of the earlier 3 year old races. Very interesting discussion to have :). · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
rafirox · The 20 horse field is has crushed many triple crown hopes. Point Given? Afleet Alex? I would like a 14 horse field. As a handicapper, I enjoy the challenge of 20 horses, but as a fan I don't like anymore than 12 horses in the gate. 14's ok, though. · 59 days ago ·

like

2

2
Dressage3295 · 14= a huge bonus. Its less likely a horse will run into traffic or that he could be possibly injured during the race. 20 babies running full out on a track is a simple recipe for disaster · 59 days ago ·

like

2

2
likin sparks · A true champion will rise above the rest no matter the field size, when we talk about the quality of horses we have to look at the physical specimen and not what races they are entered or biasing a point system. These are not the quality horses compared to those 20, 30 and 40 years ago these are weaker, chemically tainted and poorly bred so regardless limiting the size of the field will have no bearing. · 59 days ago ·

like

2

2
Dressage3295 · As much as we'd like to think that the best horse with great quality wins every time- it doesn't always happen. Curlin, Native Dancer, Risen Star, etc. Reducing the size of the field would be a bigger advantage I think for the horses that never had a start their 2 yr old year · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
Dressage3295 · As much as we'd like to think that the best horse with great quality wins every time- it doesn't always happen. Curlin, Native Dancer, Risen Star, etc. Reducing the size of the field would be a bigger advantage I think for the horses that never had a start their 2 yr old year · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
darlene · I wish for a field of 14 for quality and for safety · 59 days ago ·

like

2

2
Southern.Humor · treet Sense was very much the best horse at the time of the derby in his crop. Size of field had nothing to do with curlin loosing. That being said, I think a smaller field might be better for the derby, with so many horses, there is always one good one in the crop that has problems occur. · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
Dressage3295 · We can't be sure of that. With a smaller field, Hard Spun or Curlin could have been the ones on top · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
ashley.tamulonis · Bravo! I'm convinced. · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
Buckpasser · If your reason for limiting the Derby field to 14 is to get a triple crown winner, I think you are missing the whole picture. Yes horses have lost the Derby with large fields and have won the Preakness and Belmont because the fields were smaller. However Native Dancer lost the Derby with 11 in the field. Also a number of horses have won the Derby with a large field or a small one and lost the Preakness and won the Derby. That list includes: Twenty Grand 12 Derby lost Preakness and won Belmont, Johnstown 8 in the Derby lost Preakness with 6 and won Belmont, Shut Out won Derby 15 and lost Preakness with 10 and won Belmont, Capot lost The Derby with starters but won both Preakness and Belmont, Needles won the Derby with 17 lost the Preakness but won the Belmont, Tim Tam won the Derby with 14 won the Preakness but lost the Belmont, Carry Back won the Derby with 15 and The Preakness and lost the Belmont, Kaui King won the Derby with 15 won the Preakness and lost Belmont, Canonero II won the Derby with 22 and the Preakness but lost the Belmont, Bold Forbes won the Derby with 8 and the Belmont but lost the Preakness with 6 in the field, Pleasant Colony had 21 in the Derby won the Preakness but lost the Belmont, Damascus lost the Derby with 14 but won the other two, Spectacular Bid won the Derby with 10 and the Preakness but lost the Belmont. And there are more for this list. My point is that limiting the Derby doesn't help you get a Triple Crown winner because horses have won with large fields but lost one of the other Jewels usually the Preakness. Others have had small Derby fields and lost the Belmont or the Preakness. Basically, it takes a lot more than gerrymandering the Derby field to win the TC. You need a great horse. · 59 days ago ·

like

3

3
Buckpasser · Capot lost the Derby to Ponder with 14 but won the other two. · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
Cocoa2 · More than half the TC winners had a one starting gate field? More than half the TC field didn't have an electronic starting gate. I don't approve of making the triple crown easier. Horses rise to the challenge, races do not fall to cater to horses · 59 days ago ·

like

1

1
Buckpasser · Quite true Cocoa, the Electronic gate came into being in 1939 but wasn't used at all tracks until 1940. Prior to that you had starting stalls which were open at both ends. Before that for Sir Barton you had a tape barrier or a walk up start. · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
CauseForConcern · If the premise is to better insure a possible Triple Crown winner, why not say that no longer can a "fresh" horse be entered in the Preakness, or, more importantly, the Belmont. If a TC winner has to endure three races in five weeks, going the longest distances they've ever encountered, it seems unfair that any horse that hasn't run in the first two legs be allowed to take away the chance of a potential TC winner(i.e. Da Tara or Sarava). · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
Dressage3295 · Personally, I don't want it for an easier TC win. I want it to ensure a better quality/safer field. · 59 days ago ·

like

2

2
Buckpasser · Many horses have won the Derby that if we on quality control would not have competed. Exterminator was only entered because Sun Briar had come up lame. When his trainer suggested to Kilmer that Exterminator be entered in his stead, Kilmer laughed and felt Exterminator had no chance. Needless to say he won and began long and illustrious career on the turf. Sir Barton was entered as a pace maker for his stablemate Billy Kelly and according to biographies of Arnold Rothstein because of a bet he had with Commander Ross the owner of Sir Barton and Billy Kelly. Sir Barton of course won and then went on to win the TC. Canonero II was certainly not the first choice to win and probably wouldn't have been there under quality control. There are many other examples of Derby winners who have been surprise winners but have had good careers on the turf. After all Aristedes wasn't expected to win the first Derby as he was the pacemaker for his good stablemate, Chesapeake. Then you have Morvich who was unbeaten coming into the Derby and was the top two yr old and never won another race after the Derby. IMO limiting the field to 14 doesn't insure a better quality field and neither does limiting it to 19 or 20 or any other number. · 59 days ago ·

like

1

1
rafirox · I didn't say I want it so it would be easier, I just said it has ruined many dreams. The fact that the TC is such a difficult task makes it all the more memorable. Only a champion, for modern day, will be able to win three G1 races in five weeks at three different tracks one at a 10 furlong distance on a quirky track with 20 horses, one at 9.5 with sharp turns, and one at a 12 furlong distance on a sandy track. I love the TC being challenging, but overall I think they should make the limit 14 for quality, but mainly safety. Every derby I am very afraid a animal will get hurt, I literallly think about it the entire race. · 59 days ago ·

like

1

1
amino998 · CfC>>A friend and I were at the Del Mar walking ring the year after Sarava’s Belmont. When he arrived from the receiving barn to run in an allowance race, we looked at each other and said, “THAT’S a Belmont winner???” If you can’t beat a Da Tara or a Sarava, sorry, you’re not Triple Crown worthy. As for eliminating the unworthy from the Derby, I found Mine That Bird’s decisive victory over a weak field more satisfying than a head bobbing finish for the win between those immortals Pioneer of the Nile, Musket Man and Papa Clem. How about 19?>>leave the dangerous and nearly impossible 1 hole empty. · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
Buckpasser · A smaller field should guarantee a safer outcome, but it doesn't. Horses like Tim Tam, Tanks Prospect, Prairie Bayou etc. pulled up lame or broke down in fields under 14 in the Belmont. Sadly breakdowns and other problems occur regardless of the size of the field. · 59 days ago ·

like

2

2
Buckpasser · Rafirox. The Preakness and the Belmont have actually ruined more TC ambitions collectively than has the Derby. And the Preakness and Belmont fields are usually substantially less than the Derby field. · 59 days ago ·

like

2

2
Buckpasser · My quick count of horses that have won the Derby and Preakness but lost the Belmont combined with those who have won the Derby and Belmont but lost the Preakness is about 33. Andy gives the figure 11 for those that lost the Derby but won the other two Jewell's. · 59 days ago ·

like

1

1
travel_vic · over exertion rearing its ugly head after the overwhelming Derby efforts. · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
travel_vic · over exertion rearing its ugly head after the overwhelming Derby efforts. · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
buds · How about an extra week between the Preakness and the derby, · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
amdaman · I don't see a problem with the field size. Historically, there's nothing to support that safety be a concern. Regarding quality, I say we first see how the new qualifying system works out. Perhaps Sunland will attract better horses in the future. Maybe raising the nomination fees, as well as the entry and starting fees would discourage anyone with enough pocket change to nominate a dud, or at least encourage owners to make a more realistic evaluation of their horses before entering them in the KD. · 59 days ago ·

like

1

1
LennyGeorge · 14 is not smaller ............ but it would be much much better · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
AndyScoggin · buckpasser--Don't forget that prior to 1931, the Preakness was run before the Derby 11 times. · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
DAVIDM9999 · I would prefer an eleite field of 14 rather than a wtaered down field of 20. About half of the horses going in the Derby each year cannot get the distance and are simply ill spotted. One thing a field of 20 does is infalte the odds on the real contenders however I hate to see 7F horses being pushed for 3 additional furlongs. I also think the congestion caused by horses backing up thru the field can be minimized allowing for cleaner trips of the real contenders. A field of 14 won't happen as CD wants the maximum handle and maximum spectacle. · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
Buckpasser · AndyScoggin. Yes I am well aware of the fact that the Preakness was run before the Derby 11 times. It was also run on the same day at least twice prior to that. I was counting horses after 1931 who actually started in all three races. I started with Twenty Grand who won both Derby and Belmont but finished second to Mate in the Preakness. I threw out horses like Ill have another who didn't start in the Belmont along with 1932 Burgoo King who won the Derby and Preakness but did not start in the Belmont. Also as a small aside merely because the Preakness was held before the Derby doesn't necessarily disqualify it from consideration. It depends on the actual length of time between the two races. Sometimes it was as little as three days sometimes more. Also for the record the Derby was not always run on the first Saturday in May. A couple of renewals, I believe one was Reigh Count's were actually run later in May. I will pull up my program from that Derby and check it out. · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
travel_vic · there has not been a Derby field in a very long time with more than about 6 real contenders · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
Buckpasser · My entire point in this discussion is that the Derby is unique in its standing in American Turf. Horses that should never have been in there in the first place like Sir Barton, Exterminator, Cananero II have won and have gone on to a great career in many cases. The Derby was a launching pad for that. And in other cases the sure thing has gone down thinking Native Dancer here. Also the top two yr from the year before doesn't always make the grade, thinking of Bold Lad, Successor, Top Knight, Silent Screen etc. etc. to me this the race that keeps thoroughbred ownership alive because everyone can think with that small purchase priced horse, he too could win the Derby. And many of them have. To me it is to paraphrase the movie The Maltese Falcon: "It is the (race) that dreams are made of." Take that illusion away and its just another horse race. Just my opinion. · 59 days ago ·

like

1

1
travel_vic · Canonaro figured and he figured strongly...so did Exterminator...Just because the rank and file did not pick up on quality does not mean they were not up to snuff. · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
Lisa111 · I agree 100% Buckpasser. The lure and the excitement and everything that goes with 20 horses charging out of that gate is what turns a horse race into a spectacular test of athletisism, skill and will for both the horse and the jockey. The Derby is spectacle, beauty, big hats, My Old Kentucky Home and 20 pumped up horses parading for all to enjoy. Just taking away 6 of them, takes away the magic that is the Derby. And anyone of those six could have excelled that day and taken home the trophy. · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
rafirox · Like always, when I debate with Buckpasser, he/she beats me. @Buckpasser, you have changed my opinion 100%, however I still think it might be safer with only 14 horses. · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
botsonian · The Road to the Roses fantasy challenge is open only to Americans? WTF?!? · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
Buckpasser · Rafirox. Thanks for the compliment. I am a trial lawyer and am used to arguing a position, rightly or wrongly. My point is really that when you try an impose a criterion like "quality" to be able to compete and that somehow limiting a field to 14 or even increasing it to 19 or beyond instills quality, is in my view inaccurate. Because quality like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That is until the day after the first Saturday in May. Look at the arguments here concerning Shanghai Bobby: can he get a mile and a quarter or not? We will know for sure if he is that gate on that first Saturday in May. Also as to safety, yes less may be better. But Native Dancer was given a horrific ride and · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
Buckpasser · There were only 11 in his Derby. You could argue that with a larger field, people are more alert because of potential problems and may be more careful or as careful as they can be. · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
Buckpasser · TV I agree with you about both Cananero II and Exterminator being up to the mark and people missing that prior to the Derby. After that there wasn't a doubt in the rank and file's mind. · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
rafirox · That's accurate. I do agree it is in the eye of the beholder. And perhaps shortening the field won't insure extra quality. I do believe that the trainers and owners might run their horses more often if there was a 14 horse field. The people (jockeys, track crew, gate, etc) are probably much much more careful and aware of potential problems, but the horses? The horses, I am not an expert in animal behavior, are scared, frightened, excited. Just like humans, the Derby's huge for them, and they know it. They know how big a crowd's there, they understand the field size. There, imo, is a logical argument towards both sides. I still would be afraid with safety, but breakdowns can happen in any race. I remember last year Hansen and Prospective clipped heals, and Hansen almost went down. It scared me to death, as with a 20 horse field, that could of caused 3-5 horses to go down. But, again, breakdowns or accident as you said, can happen in any race. · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
icyhotboo · I disagree with a lot said here on the basis that limiting a field to twenty, fourteen, eight, or any number isn't the basic problem. From my perspective, that's to far to early to run a 3yo at the 10f distance. I realize the ultimate reasons for running the KD the first Saturday in May is money, as opposed to running it the last Saturday in May. The short summer season is also a big factor. The psychological aspect of having a KD winner can't be overstated. It literally tips the scale of sanity upside down, so as to have both owner and trainer not trying to qualify the horse in their mind on the basis of being ready at that time, but to qualify to run period, regardless of risk to the horse on the basis of maturity. In my mind this early start of the best 3yos, and the scramble to get into the starting gate, is the reason we have so few of these elite, fragile creatures left intact come the fall. · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
Buckpasser · Icy. Your view is certainly that of Sam Riddle and other owners and trainers who didn't run in the Derby. · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
rafirox · I think differently about the reason so many elite, fragile colts and geldings retire too soon, icy. I think half of it is breeding. The fast and early maturing, one and done sires hardly do anything good to the sport. How many old school, 10-12 furlong stallions? How many bring turf excellence? True endurance? Durability? How 'bout all three? Only Dynaformer is what I could think of. We need better breeders. Too many horses are similar. Too much inbreeding. That is why losing Animal Kingdom was a big loss. THIS is why so many are retired early, IMO. Along with training. The training, nowadays, is WORKING to stay fit. Why not run the horses every two weeks and give them a foundation? Oh, they can't because of the breeding. Why must most owners retire their star colt so early? Oh yeah, GREED. It all comes together. We need bigger purses RESTRICTED to older horses. What about a 2 million dollar race for horses only five and up? FORCE trainers and owners to keep their horse around. I think my point is you're saying that injury and the rush to the gate is what is causing all these early retirements, I see differently. I'll Have Another, Union Rags, Creative Cause, etc ALL could have came back for a 4 yo season, but the trainers and owners found the excuse to retire them and make money in the shed. · 59 days ago ·

like

1

1
rafirox · In order to change the sport, we need a fantastic horseman. We have Sheriffs, Mott, and some others. But, we need a breeder like Bradley. An owner like Phipps. A trainer like Jones. THAT'S what we need to change the sport, NOT moving the Derby date. I think, if bred and trained properly, colts and geldings should be able to go 10 furlongs in May. It's been that way for 138 years, why must it be changed now? JMO. · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
Mike in SB · One result of the 20 horse Derby fields is that the race is no longer the determining race for the 3 year old championship. Most of the Eclipse winning 3 year olds in the last two decades or so since 20 horse fields have become the norm have won the Preakness. The 14 horse Preakness has become the most important 3 year old race to determine champions, even if it is much less popular with the owners and fans than the Derby. · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
buds · TV- That was a terrible comment “there has not been a Derby field in a very long time with more than about 6 real contenders.” Let me think…What about last year! There were 12 Graded stakes winner of distances longer than 8.5 furlongs and 11 of those 12 were multiple stakes winners. These horses all had legit chances at winning the derby. Now I didn’t like all 12 horses but they certainly deserved a shot, and 12 is way more than 6! I listed them for you cuz people like to check up on facts on this site so here they are. Ill Have Another 3-G1 wins (2nd G2), Bodemiester 1- G1 win (2nd G1,G1,G2), Dullihan 3-G1 wins (2nd G3), Creative Cause 1-G1 and 2 G2 wins (2nd G1, G1), Union Rags 2-G1 and 2 G2 wins (2nd G1), Hansen 1-G1 win and 2 G3 wins (2nd G1 ,G3), Daddy Nose Best - G3 wins, Optimizer 3-G3 wins (2nd G2,G2), Daddy Long Legs 2-G2 wins, Take Charge Indy 1-G1 win (2nd G1,G3), Gemolgist G1 and G2 wins, and Alpha G1 and G2 wins (2nd G1,G1). · 59 days ago ·

like

3

3
icyhotboo · "It's been that way for 138 years, why must it be changed now?" It should be changed now because in actuality prior to 1931 when the term "Triple Crown" was first used the Kentucky Derby was run in mid may, not the first Saturday in May. The change was so that a specific order could be established. It seems to me it's an error that needs to be corrected for the reason's stated prior. How about the preakness being run in mid May at 9 furlongs, followed by the KD on the first Saturday in June, followed by the Bemont 3 weeks later.I don't believe this time change and the loss of 1/16 of a mile will dull the lustre of any future triple crown winner. If so add the extra 1/16 on the the Belmont which will be held the end of June when most are more mature. · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
buds · The field size will not change; I hear a lot of people talking about quality of horses. The quality has nothing to do with it, it’s all about money. This is why some races have more points than others. I bet if it benefited Churchill downs, we would see the Illinois Derby be worth a few points. It’s not a coincidence that the wild card races are at the tracks that they are. Its all about money. If sports were about quality, we would have an NFL with only 20 teams cuz we only have 20 good quarter backs! I’m still surprised that horses are not filled with ads like NASCAR as they run around the track! (UPS woulda been all over Big Brown)LOL · 59 days ago ·

like

0

0
icyhotboo · buds, I agree with you. When talking about quality that hasn't changed either. Since 1950 the median time for he KD is 2:02.0, and the percentage of injuries is close to the same as back in the 60, and 70s. · 59 days ago ·

like

1

1
Mary Z. · I say don't mess with The Derby. If there's a lack of class, meaning the owners, not just the horses, maybe a street sweeper to clear the junk would help. · 59 days ago ·

like

1

1
Buckpasser · Just for the record, the Derby prior to 1931 was run 13 or 15 times on the first Saturday in May ( I included Paul Jones and Regret's Derby because of possible leap year issue since they ran May 8th respectively). There was also one time in 1901 when His Eminence won and the race was held on April 29th. Also it should be noted that the Derby was run initially at 1 1/2 miles to emulate the Ascot Derby. The present distance came about in 1896 I believe. All of this information came from the Derby Media Guide. · 58 days ago ·

like

1

1
Buckpasser · One final point, many times when the Derby was run later in May had more to do with the opening of the meet at Churchill Downs. This came from the Derby media Guide and also was stated in Matt Winn's autobiography Down the Stretch. · 58 days ago ·

like

0

0
cocoa2 · 1896 was also the year the first roses were draped over the winner · 58 days ago ·

like

0

0
Buckpasser · Cocoa2. Thanks for info. Didn't know that. · 58 days ago ·

like

0

0
travel_vic · just because a three year old wins some extended sprint at graded stakes does NOT mean it has the maturity distance and weight carrying potential of 10 furlong the first week in May of its three year old season. THIS SEASON two, I'll bet there will not be more than 6 real contenders. · 58 days ago ·

like

2

2
cocoa2 · travel_vic's absolute comments beginning to fall apart, as par usual · 58 days ago ·

like

0

0
illhaveanothertriplecrown · i like the 20 horse race. more exciting · 58 days ago ·

like

1

1
Lisa111 · I agree with Mary Z. Don't mess with The Derby. Would 12 horses at four year olds be a solution to all that is wrong with a coveted race that has been an American Tradition for well over a century??!! All of the horses that make the gate are contenders and they got there by winning Graded Stakes against EACH OTHER. It is the single race of the year where the "common folk" tune in to see this sport because of this tradition. Mess with it and it falls. · 58 days ago ·

like

4

4
yoshi.haiwa · I could live with 16, but anymore than that is too problematic. I watch the Derby every year but I'm not dumb enough to bet on that big a field. The winning horse is more likely to be just plain lucky, unless he/she is a superhorse, not the best in the field. · 58 days ago ·

like

0

0
travel_vic · With these huge fields, I have, quite frankly, been ready to see a horrible accident as that thunderous mass runs by the stands the first time. So many colts get pinched back (with it being all over for them early) right at the start never to recover. Lookin at Lucky is one of many that readily comes to mind.......Give the field some room. and I agree and have always said, this race is 50% talent and 50% luck to negotiate to the wire in front. · 58 days ago ·

like

1

1
teuflesburg · The Kentucky Derby should be the best of the best. Horses should have to win several races against other quality horses to have the opportunity to make it to the big dance. Maybe horses should have to earn their way into each leg of a Derby prep race? For example: The horses who make the Florida Derby have to have won or placed in a lower level Derby prep. Then the top two from each of the seven 100 point races make it to the Derby. · 57 days ago ·

like

0

0
travel_vic · As long as money and influence trade hands, there will be also rans in the field · 57 days ago ·

like

1

1
ismalli · It is without any doubt The Kentucky Derby Fiekl is too large; yet, as with other sports, we could go 2 Race Format three weeks prior, and the top 14 Race May4th · 57 days ago ·

like

0

0
Zenyatta-Perfection Personified · Absolutely. The BC has only 14 horse races, as do the other TC races. The 20 horse field doesn't allow a real horse race to take place, with so many horses taken out of contention by the big field. · 57 days ago ·

like

1

1
AndyScoggin · I want to thank everyone for the great comments and discussion. I really do believe that the Derby field should be 14! · 57 days ago ·

like

1

1
icyhotboo · "He doesn't necessarily have to win Saturday to go to the (Kentucky) Derby, but he has to run the right kind of race. If he doesn't, we won't go. I want the horse to take me there." McGaughey/ If more owner trainers let the horse guide them, they wouldn't have to set a 20 horse limit, because about half of them in a 20 horse field aren't ready or are strictly sprinters that clog up the field at some point and foul it up for others when they rapidly fall back. · 57 days ago ·

like

1

1
icyhotboo · I know this is said almost every year, but this year there does seem to be many quality horses. · 57 days ago ·

like

0

0

Saratoga to Pay Homage to Racing Legends

The New York Racing Association, Inc. (NYRA) and the Saratoga 150 Committee today announced a new attraction designed to pay homage to the most accomplished thoroughbreds to compete at Saratoga Race Course during its 150-year history. Read More

Show All 2 Comments
skipaway2000 · No Fourstardave in the inaugural class? This list is invalid! · 58 days ago ·

like

0

0
Mike in SB · I thought Fourstardave would be in the first group, but he still has a street named after him. · 57 days ago ·

like

0

0

Pincay Looks Back on Big 'Cap Success

Regarded by many as the greatest rider of all-time, Laffit Pincay, Jr., won the Santa Anita Handicap five times. His first triumph in North America’s oldest continuously run “Hundred Grander” came 40 years ago, aboard the Charlie Whittingham-conditioned Cougar II, who was the 3-2 favorite and 126-po...Read More

Show All 0 Comments

Flights of Fancy in Florida Part II

Day two of my 48 hour horse racing odyssey in South Florida continued into Sunday morning with no more sleep than I enjoyed the night before. I find that on trips like these, a fair amount of sleep deprivation only heightens the senses to be more susceptible to the fun. That’s my story and I’m stick...Read More

Show All 4 Comments
DarleneSanner · thanks so much for the writing about this place It has been a dream of mine to watch the races there since I first saw Hialeah on tv back about 1954 I have been able to have a drive by glimse many yrs ago but no stopping because no live racing was going on then Or such a thing as being open for off track betting Maybe someday I will be there for a race and hopefully it will be TBs · 121 days ago ·

like

0

0
AndyScoggin · I loved seeing the old silks hanging around the grandstand from Vanderbilt, Calumet, Greentree, etc. · 121 days ago ·

like

1

1
butchcassidy8504 · Well said Brian. Those are exactly my thoughts of Hialeah. Also your interpretation of the long nights and qucks turnarounds into the next morning was described perfectly as you know that is just what us die-hards do everytime. It was great seeing you this weekend and thanks again my friend. :) · 121 days ago ·

like

1

1
BrianZipse · Rest In Peace, Sam Abbey, Hialeah Park's beloved Director of Racing. · 93 days ago ·

like

0

0

Affirmed

Affirmed and Alydar was a great ride to watch, but I think he is too high on list.

Show All 5 Comments
tcglory · he did kinda win a triple crown, and in my mind I believe any horse whos won the triple crown deserves a spot in the top 15 horses of all time cause of how hard it is to do. · 108 days ago ·

like

0

0
jay s. · I don't know. Laffit Pincay says he's the best horse he ever rode. That's saying something there. Seattle Slew beat him and Cordero says Slew was by far the best he ever rode. To me, that supports Affirmed as well. · 108 days ago ·

like

0

0
travel_vic · Affirmed is included in Great Horses of the Twentieth Century in the American Racing Manual......as they say ENOUGH SAID! This one was the finest ratable front runner I ever witnessed EVER · 108 days ago ·

like

1

1
travel_vic · I was lucky enough to have met Laz at Anita and he signed the winner's circle shot from the Jockey Club Gold Cup over Bid.....Nice guy, and HE said Affirmed was the best he ever trained.....People IN THE KNOW, realize where he ranks in the hierarchy of best all time. · 108 days ago ·

like

2

2
footlick · Very versatile horse as far as where he could be rated. Did not need the lead and that was his best asset. They could adapt their tactics as the race unfolded. JMO. · 108 days ago ·

like

1

1

Wise Dan, 2012's Brightest Star

Was 2012 a year of disappointment? Was it a year where the depth of divisions was so lacking that a Turf Miler would be named Horse of the Year, Turf Champion, and Champion Older Male? Or was 2012 a year with such an outstanding group of horses, that it took one so brilliant, so versatile, and so ta...Read More

Show All 13 Comments
GregRiessland · it was a great year! · 123 days ago ·

like

0

0
SteveHerron · Wise Dan was the star of a very subpar group of older horses, nothing more. It's an insult to John Henry to make any sort of comparison between the two aside from accomplishing the same Eclipse Award feat in one year. The bulk of his grade 1 campaign lasted less than two months of 2012 and all he had to show for it was 2 U.S. grade 1s(one in Canada), all on one surface and at one distance. This alleged "lord of versatility" supposedly has no problem with dirt or 10 furlongs, yet his connections still ducked the best dirt race in the world for older horses and ran in the less significant BC Mile. If this is what you call a “superb year”, I shudder to think of what a weak one looks like. Enough with these default HOTYs, hopefully the 2013 recipient earns it for being the best, not for simply being the last horse standing at the year’s end. · 123 days ago ·

like

1

1
DeadHeat · Steve, I'm sorry, but facts do not back your statement up whatsoever. Look at the numbers the male division threw, they were some of the best seen in years. Wise Dan beat some of the best turf milers in the world in that "less significant" Breeders Cup Mile. You act like his win in Canada means nothing, when in all honesty, it does. Americans count a win in Dubai, should a horse of ours go over there and win. Canada is not that far off and his win still deserves to be counted. You also forget, that while he stuck to turf for the majority of this season, he earned that nickname for having now a grade one on two different surfaces, and a graded stakes win, plus a track record on the third. He has also run and won at 9f. You want to say he ducked the best. He faced some of the best in the world. You want to say he's not versitile, well he's has a grade one on dirt and turf and a grade two on synthetic. Sorry, but neither one of your claimes stands up. · 123 days ago ·

like

1

1
Mike in SB · This year had some very strong divisions like female sprinter, 2 year old male and turf runners. The 3 year old males were a strange group, in May it looked like a great crop but by the Travers they had been decimated by injuries. I have to agree with Steve about the older males, just the fact that a turf miler is both top older male and Horse of the Year says this is a weak group of classic distance older males. Unless I am mistaken this will be the first older male Horse of the year without a win at the classic distance. I believe that the reason that we have had 4 years in a row without a older male or 3 year male as Horse of the Year is not so much that the winners had great years as the older males and 3 year old had subpar campaigns. Wise Dan is a very nice horse and the deserving winner this year but his record would not have won the award in the past. · 123 days ago ·

like

0

0
kay.robinett · Didn't Wise Dan also record one of the highest speed figures ever recorded on polytrack when he broke the track record at nine furlongs in Keeneland? If so, the voters might have taken that in consideration as well. This year the turf males and older females were two very deep divisions. The three year old males were brilliant but overall a fragile bunch. The older dirt running males took turns winning the important graded stakes, and none of them really rose to the top of the group. · 123 days ago ·

like

0

0
travel_vic · Just off the track record in Toronto as well under wraps · 123 days ago ·

like

0

0
cocoa2 · Wise Dan had the highest Beyer on turf, and over all. 121 I think it may have been · 123 days ago ·

like

0

0
timgsmith10 · Wise Dan was awesome in 2012!! · 123 days ago ·

like

0

0
rafirox · Wise Dan was much deserving of HOY. Great, great horse. And, I know I might be insulted for saying this but: I think if he has another season of this caliber, he must be labeled as one of the best american turf milers ever. Really. He is a really good horse. And, I am looking foward to another year worth of memories he will bring to us next year! · 123 days ago ·

like

1

1
cocoa2 · I am excited to see how he runs this year, another consistent year would be great. Lopresti, always modest, is a little too modest. I'm worried if Wise Dan is this good or there is something deeper to this. Did his horse just peak and is now on decline? · 123 days ago ·

like

0

0
travel_vic · Geldings are the sturdiest of what is left of any sturdiness in the breed. This one could easily extend his legacy by the mere exercise of running over multiple surfaces again this season...THAT alone in top company it a unique thing nowadays. · 123 days ago ·

like

1

1
dani.pugh · Just because a turf miler is named HOTY doesn't mean a weak older male division. If the times of the races were sub par and the numbers were way down, I could see it but that was far from the case. The numbers that the older males threw were higher than numbers we have seen in recent years. Times were just as good if not better for that group. Just because one did not establish themselves doesn't mean it was a bad bunch. That could just as well me the group all around was talent and full of depth. It wasn't like a longshot beat the favorite. The horses that won were already well respected. RTG had a very consistent year, as did Fort Larned, MMM, and Flat Out. The Whitney, FO, FL, and RTG went 123. Look at their records, you see they run consistently fast. They were evenly matched, but also one of the best groups of older males we have seen in a long time. Times and numbers say that. · 122 days ago ·

like

2

2
cocoa2 · "Just because a turf miler is named HOTY doesn't mean a weak older male division." LIKE · 122 days ago ·

like

2

2

Affirmed: The Last Crown Winner

Do you ever wonder why we haven't had a Triple Crown winner in what seems like forever? What made Affirmed so different from the horses we have now? This is a look back at what Affirmed accomplished in winning the 'crown and why he was the last to do it.Read More

Show All 29 Comments
TampaBayDowns Fan · Ok, now you guys can finally comment on here! · 126 days ago ·

like

0

0
rafirox · Nice job, TBDF :). · 126 days ago ·

like

1

1
cocoa2 · "herefore, all things said, I've come up with the conclusion that one of the things that separated him from the horses today was not physical, but rather mental. The latest Triple Crown winner had the utter will to win, and couldn't handle defeat." Exactly my opinion · 126 days ago ·

like

1

1
cocoa2 · Nice job · 126 days ago ·

like

1

1
TampaBayDowns Fan · Thank you, guys. (again!) · 126 days ago ·

like

0

0
Dressage3295 · Excellent job! Very well written :) · 126 days ago ·

like

0

0
TampaBayDowns Fan · Thanks Dressage, haven't seen your commments lately! · 126 days ago ·

like

0

0
kay.robinett · very well written. :-) · 126 days ago ·

like

0

0
airedale2008 · Sterling writing, TBDF. It was a great rivalry and a thrilling Triple Crown series for the fans. Too bad I’ll Have Another and Bodemeister did not meet a third time to possibly crown Another champion. · 126 days ago ·

like

0

0
TampaBayDowns Fan · Thank you, I can't say it enough! I love alll of the comments you guys post! · 126 days ago ·

like

0

0
rafirox · No problem TBDF! Just keep writing ;). · 126 days ago ·

like

1

1
footlick · Great article, TBDF! Enjoyed the read and the memories, even though I was an Alydar supporter. · 126 days ago ·

like

1

1
illhaveanothertriplecrown · Nice job TBDF. I have yet to witness a triple crown but you article definately conveyed the excitement of what I imagine it would be like. If only not for a tendon injury last june....sigh. · 126 days ago ·

like

1

1
travel_vic · Again the point is missed that it takes LUCK as well as skill to attain that title. LOTS OF LUCK. Swale, Native Dancer, Canonero, Majestic Prince etc did not have the luck but had the skill in excess. · 126 days ago ·

like

0

0
CauseForConcern · Nicely written TBDF. I think that your description of Alydar reminds me of Silver Charm. SC had Captain Bodgit run right up to him in the Derby, but he would not let him by. His nature showed David Hofmans(I think that's the spelling) that his charge Touch Gold, would have simple instructions. Hofmans stated prior to the Belmont that his strategy would be, that when they entered the stretch, if there was to be a stretch duel, do not look him in the eye. When he came into the stretch, Silver Charm was to the rail, and the jockey swung him wide. Touch Gold emerged as the winner, as Silver Charm faded. Had he ran up beside him, it might have been a different result? · 126 days ago ·

like

1

1
CauseForConcern · Affirmed, not Alydar. · 126 days ago ·

like

0

0
TampaBayDowns Fan · I can honestly say that this would be the third triple crown in my list that I would've loved to witness · 125 days ago ·

like

0

0
TampaBayDowns Fan · Tv, luck is controversial, a theory if you will. I believe in making your own luck. · 125 days ago ·

like

1

1
travel_vic · Tampa you have no idea of the traffic in the Derby....MANY a logical winner was denined the roses for NO OTHER REASON than the race being cluttered up with yokels who wanted to hear their colt's name called out the first Saturday in May but really had NO reason to be there. · 125 days ago ·

like

2

2
travel_vic · making your own luck got colts like Marfa and Gate Dancer a DQ · 125 days ago ·

like

Facebook User?

Use your HRN account:

Affirmed

What the Horse Racing Nation is saying about Affirmed...