Imagine that we had a drug that blocked the effects of cystic fibrosis. That would be great, BUT, if those people who had it were allowed to wildly disribute the genes that CAUSE the disease, would we, in the long term, not be doing MORE harm than good?

I'd like to see former Salix users win and place in the five BCJ races. That could have more impact towards showing that horses can run successfully without the drug than if already Salix-free horses win those races.

Interesting story about the brand name via my sister at a hosptial in Laguna beach ....LASTS SIX HOURS was the phrase that became the brand name.

What you really need to do is start phasing out LASIx. The BC juvenile races are the shots across the bow. Now you need to follow up with the major two yr old races being without LASIx. From there you need to move onto to zkD qualifying races. You will not stop its use immediately, but if you continue phasing it out, it will be gone faster than people think. But you must continue and not make the breeders cup a one shot deal.

I think that the reason they went with a LASIx ban at the Breeders Cup on two yr olds was the pressure from Congress which has gotten little or no press at racing sites. Congressional hearings have looked into the drug issue and their basic point is that horse racing cannot police themselves so the Feds would have to do it. I think this ban and pledge not to use LASIx was an attempt to show that racing can police itself. I do think the 21 horses that broke down at Aqueduct and the takeover of the NyRA by Cuomo and the article by Joe Drape in the NY Times fed into this as well as the allegations around O'neilll and IHA.

"According to one DRF article 95% of all horses run on Lasix. It seems to me that MORE research should have been done before making this decision." This B.S. is what we hear from the completely zany members of Congress who know NOTHING about science in hopes that if enough study is done it will, in the long run, obfuscate the facts. Spoken like the typical IGNORANT player out there who does not know CRAP about the pharmacology of this medication, its typical usage in humans (Congestive Heart Failure, hypertension and accumulation of pitting edema in venous stasis, hepatic cirrhosis, renal impairment, nephrotic syndrome, in adjunct therapy for cerebral/pulmonary edema where rapid diuresis is required [IV injection], and in the management of severe hypercalcemia in combination with adequate re-hydration). ANY OTHER medication, normally cleared by the kidney will be cleared from the system FASTER as a result of diuresis. Any remnant of a drug you want OUT? This is the way to do it. Did you catch that one about HYPERCALCEMIA? Why would someone bitch about spindly bones and then use a drug that not only messes up the NORMAL electrolytes, but leaches calcium out of the skeleton?...How much MORE important is that during the immature years when calcium is being laid down in the epiphyseal ends of bones? Add to the fact that only ONE venue ON EARTH uses this crap while the rest of world runs healthy horses without it. Reminds me of the mom watching little Johnny march in a parade in his band. He is out of step to everyone and the mom shouts "Look at all those others out of step and John is the only one marching correctly!" We are moving into a new dark ages, galloping in fact.

amazing how hogwash like this gets to be gospel "First-time Lasix should improve this one's chances."

Excellent points, tv and Buckpasser. I don't hate the individuals who make the comments, but I hate reading, "First-time Lasix should improve this one's chances." or similar posts of handicappers. Something that is scary to me is the dangerous mastery of language by those who are proponents of Salix, meaning that they don't just tolerate its use; they are for using it, sometimes saying they think it is cruel to run horses without it. Dangerous words, imo, and sometimes they are very powerful people.

You want to phase out or ban LASIx use, tie the Derby qualifying races under the new point system to the ban. If just the BC juvenile races have a ban, then owners will skirt the races and go somewhere else. If you ban LASIx use for Derby qualifying races, then there will be no place to hide so to speak, because the TC races are where the breeding dollars are. Stop the drug use and you will see less breakdowns on the track.

One word to them: TOUGH

To me this attempted ban on LASIx for two yr olds has fallen flat on its face. Only 45 owners signed a pledge not to run on LASIx and the real point of the ban is to realize who did not sign. The majority of non signatories own the top two yr olds, like Stonestreet et al.

To me if you really want to cut down or eliminate LASIx use, you need to coordinate with the point system going into the Derby and TC races. Unless you tackle the monetary breeding advantages to winning these races, you will never solve the problems of the racing industry of too much drug use and early retirements and chronic breakdowns. To me all these problems go hand in hand. Solve the drug issue and you will over time solve the breakdown and early retirement issues.

Our horses, byt the very nature of their definiton as throughbreds, are of the same genearl genetic background as those running ANY WHERR in the world. WHy do you think it is that ONE vnue, North America, in all the world relies on race day DRUGS (which taints the sprot to the casual fan heavily)....No where else on the planet..Just who is out of step here?

Furosemide is crap, has always been crap as it is given out of HABIT, not reuqriement. I have seen countless horses put on that unnecessary medication for no other reason than some erroneous idead that "Well he is using it why can't I? there MUST be some advanatage and I want it too." The FIRST thing your learn in pharmacology is that NO drug, NOT ONE, has a single effect. They have the effect they are prescirbed to accomplish (more or less based upon the individual does/resposne curve) and then all the other effects simply lumped together as Side effects. This drug is used for hypertension, and the fluid accumulation in extremities or in the lungs in congestive heart failure. THAT IS WHAT IT IS USED FOR, proven to do etc, not they flimsy evidence that some horsemen cling to. It wastes electrolytes, sometimes dramatically to the point of startng heart arrhytmias, is leaches Calcium from bones, a myriad of effects that just DO NOT warrent the widespread use. I am amazed to see how often an ENTIRE race card is on the crap, as opposed to the standard bred which is only about 30-35% and even then for shorter periods of time. FOR its purpose in the racing horse, it is a very bad pharmacological choice and should be banned or cut back substantially.

To me the Breeders Cup Juvenile is in the Perfect Storm. I am sure the LASIx ban is an issue. Neither Repole nor most of the top owners with good two yr olds signed the pledge against LASIx. The venue again at Santa Anita is a problem as it goes against the founding spirit of the Breeders Cup races as alternating among various tracks. Finally the new points system does Change the emphasis on this race as Ambitious D points out. I do think if you had a win and you are in the Derby on this race, the concerns about LASIx and the race being at Santa Anita again would disappear.

NO, let the bleeders be exposed so they can BREED away from it like MOST of the rest of the WORLD does

Bern Identity will skip the BC races for this year. As of now he will run in the 1 million dollar jackpot. I wished he would run here, but very unlikely for him considering he just raced today.

It seems that, horses aren't going to run less hard or slow down in a race to prevent bleeding. I think with where the sport is at now, it may be necessary to keep lasix legal in order to prevent these issues.

Hey guys, I don't want to start a new thread so i am going to put this question on this one. It seems to me that the need for Lasix is valid due to the possible effects on the horse, should they run without it. Yes, not running with lasix at all would be best for everyone but if the horses are having EIHP and bleeding problems because of not running with it...is it worth it?

How much of an effect do you think the new Kentucky Derby points system has on the field size? The million dollar plus winnings are nearly irrelevant to punching the entry ticket to Churchill this year, which may hold back some trainers from trying to throw a hail mary.